Hi MGBGT:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MGBGT
I think once again the bottom line is that all these cars are great, and anyone who chooses one of these cars over other, more polluting cars, is doing a great job! Of course, how much our individual cars will spew out will depend a lot on driving style, location, season, etc. M
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___I could not have said it any better myself
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MGBGT
what gets me, that on this site too, the ratings for the Prius (and others) differ substantially between CA and the rest of the US. If this is true, it ticks me off, why should we not be able to get the same low polluting technology in the rest of the US?
For example, the Prius in the rest is listed as
8 APS (instead of 9.5).M
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___This is due to
only LS (low sulfur) fuels (for the consumer) available in the 5 + clean states vs. the mix and match of HS (high sulfur) and LS (low sulfur) fuels available throughout the rest of the country. I do not know if the Australian refiners are mandated to produce < 30 ppm or not yet?
___The key to SMOG related emissions is in the efficiency of the CAT’s and Fuel control. You can see the PZEV based HCH, PZEV based (non-hybrid) Honda Accord, and the Prius II listed on the EPA’s site. When all 3 are running LS, they meet the most stringent CARB based SULEV-II rating with a score of 9.5. The (2) particular Honda’s I listed include higher efficiency CAT’s and their emissions are much lower when using HS fuels vs. the Prius II as shown in the Federal - Tier II std.. Extrapolating, these PZEV based Honda’s are lower emitters on LS vs. the Prius II as well because of those excellent CAT’s.
PZEV HCH: SULEV-II on LS (9.5)/Tier II-
Bin2 on HS (9)
PZEV Honda Accord (non-hybrid): SULEV-II on LS (9.5)/Tier II-
Bin2 on HS (9)
PZEV Prius II: SULEV-II on LS (9.5)/Tier II-
Bin3 on HS (8)
___EricGo, the following includes even more specifics as requested given the PZEV based Honda’s are Tier II-Bin2 rated vs. the Prius II at Tier II-Bin3. The Prius II can have as much as 300% higher NOx emissions and 200% higher NMOG emissions as that allowed for the PZEV based Honda’s:
Code:
Tier II – Bin
(Emission limits at full useful life of 100,000 – 120,000 miles) in grams/mile
NOx NMOG CO PM HCHO
Bin 2 0.01 .02 2.1 .01 .004
Bin 3 0.03 .055 2.1 .01 .011
___In terms of GHG’s, it is a matter of the FE you
actually receive.
Greenhouse Gas Score --- Pounds CO2 per mile --- Fuel Economy (Combined mpg) - Gasoline
10 --- < .045 lb’s/mile --- 44 mpg and higher
09 --- 0.45 to 0.54 lb’s/mile --- 36 - 43 mpg
…
#’s of CO2 emitted per gallon of gasoline consumed = 19.4 <-- This does not include discovery/pumping, transportation, and/or refining.
___Do you know anyone that owns an Insight with < a 44 mpg lmpg? I see just 1 in the RHMDB. Do you know anyone that owns a Prius II that has an lmpg of < 44 mpg? They are to numerous to count. Even considering the Euro Urban/Extra Urban FE and emissions testing program, the CO2/mile coming from the Honda Insight 5-speed is the lowest of all automobiles for sale in the EU the last time I checked.
___A note about diesel … Diesel CO2 emissions are ~ 10 % higher/mile traveled (gallon consumed) because of diesel fuels higher Carbon content. A diesel of whatever type running B100 Bio has the lowest CO2 emissions of all given the plants it is made from - carbon cycle. Ethanol creates a similar reduction in GHG’s for our gasoline consuming automobiles but because of the lower FE when using any % of ethanol, the reduction benefit is not as robust as that of a regular diesel running Bio …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
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Waynegerdes@earthlink.net