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Originally Posted by rrrrrroger
I think it's reasonable to call it standard.
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Ok, I checked the list from
www.fueleconomy.gov and found these diesel models:
- Mercedes-Benz E320 Bluetec 6 cyl, 3 L, Automatic 7-spd, Diesel
- Mercedes-Benz ML320 CDI 4matic 6 cyl, 3 L, Automatic 7-spd, Diesel
- Mercedes-Benz R320 CDI 4matic 6 cyl, 3 L, Automatic 7-spd, Diesel
- Mercedes-Benz GL320 CDI 4matic 6 cyl, 3 L, Automatic 7-spd, Diesel
- Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 6 cyl, 3 L, Automatic 5-spd, Diesel
- Volkswagen Touareg 10 cyl, 5 L, Automatic (S6), Diesel
Which ones meet the technical qualifications of "high pressure direct injection and turbo charging?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrrrrroger
The tough regulations imposed by the CARB and the U.S. EPA have effectively banned all diesels except for the direct-injection, turbo-charged kind. The non-DI, non-turbo cars simply do not exist in North American 2008 models.
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Check out the Jeep, which according to the EPA, has no turbo charger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrrrrroger
Also, if one is going to compare the "bleeding-edge" hybrid technology, than would should use "bleeding-edge" technology available for diesel, gasoline, and so on. That's consistent.
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If we are going to compare 'concept' cars, then let's include the plug-in hybrids. But in engineering, we work hard to compare like-to-like and it makes a lot more sense to compare vehicles that can be bought because they are on the show room floor. We can both test drive them on Saturday and the EPA values are readily available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrrrrroger
They really make no mention whatsoever of urban driving?
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The direct quote, the whole paragraph:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Int. J. Automotive Technology and Management, Vol. 7, No. 4, 2007, pp. 276
With many different HEV models being marketed in the USA, many practical tests showed controversial efficiency results: Specifically, when comparing with modern diesel vehicles with high pressure direct injection and turbo charging, HEVs lose out when it comes to constant driving over longer distances. Other drawbacks to the consumer are smaller trunk capacities due to volume taken by the batteries or the higher initial purchase price. HEV technology offers advantages in stop-and-go traffic, which is cities.
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Had they written, ". . . modern diesel vehicles with high pressure direct injection and turbo charging, HEVs lose out when it comes to constant driving over longer distances but offer advantages in stop-and-go traffic which is cities." There would be no problem and we would be in complete agreement. But notice they inserted the perfectly useless statement about trunks and cost between these two critically related pieces of information. Sure enough, this is what some of the diesel advocates do, claim highway mileage as if urban driving is unimportant . . . like "If I buy a 70mpg Lupo . . ." whose combined mileage is quite a bit less:
http://www.carsplusplus.com/specs200...upo_14_tdi.php
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrrrrroger
That's quite surprising. Most hybrids have the advantage there because of their EV modes. (Of course it's worth pointing out that diesels can also be hybridized, thus achieving the same EV-like performance in city driving.)
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Not really since we've got a lot of experience with hybrid skeptics. We are used to them taking things out of context or using semantics to mislead, Chanaron and Teske, or making stuff up, "CNW Marketing" and "Daily Mail".
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrrrrroger
The U.S. EPA performed a study using the GREET(?) model, and they reached most of the same conclusions as your $40 study. They found that gasoline hybrids are very efficient, but that diesel hybrids were the best overall (both urban and suburban).
So that provides at least some backing for the conclusion.
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Perhaps you are referencing,"
Well-to-Wheels Energy and Emissions Impacts of Vehicle/Fuel Systems, Development and Applications of the GREET model" by Michael Wang, Argonne National Laboratory, April 14, 2003, pp. 32 clearly shows the gasoline hybrid beating the diesels:
You'll notice the
non-existent, diesel hybrid competes. The 'on the showroom floor' non-hybrid diesels are the first column.
Bob Wilson