My 2005 FEH had the rear rotors replaced. The pads were at 6mm so I did not have those replaced. What would you expect to pay for this?

I was charged $124 per rotor, $42 labor per rotor, plus $42 for "greasing" the brakes plus a $25 "shop supply charge". Total cost with tax $430. First time I have had a brake job in along time since i had been doing 2 and 3 year leases previously.

Questions:

1. How bad was I screwed?
2. Why would pads outlive the rotors?
3. Can someone who has never worked on a car replace the front brake pads himself? (They are at 2mm)

Thanks!

 

"shop supply charges" always irk me. Nevertheless, the overall charge doesn't seem exhorbitant, considering the rotor replacement. OTOH, maybe I'm thinking in Canadian dollars

Front brake pad replacement is easily within the DIY abilities. Your best bet is to acquire the official Service Manual for your car. Second best is Chilton type aftermarket books. Rear disk brakes are a bit more complicated due to the parking brake being incorporated. I've never had rear disks myself, but my son and I did his once or twice.

I prefer disk brake pad replacement to drum brake shoe replacement, any day! The latter is something I'd gladly hand off to the pros.

 

Wagner brand rear rotors for a 2005 FEH are right at $100 at Advance Auto parts and O'Reilly's. With a dealer markup, $124 seems in line.

Not sure what greasing the brakes would be for unless there's a bearing somewhere in the mix. The $25 shop supply charge was probably for the grease and other misc. materials.

I think others here can give you the expected time for a rotor change from the service manual and you should be able to get the shop's hourly rate to compare.

What did the old rotors look like? Groved, warped, cracked?

 

Rotors were groved, and too thin to fix.

 

I agree the price doesn't sound out of line.

At $42 dollars a rotor it sounds like they charged you 1/2 hr per rotor and 15 min per side to "grease the brakes". This isn't bad for the rears which have the parking brake hardware also.

They didn't really grease the brakes, what they lubed was the brackets that the pads slide into, I used to use "never seize" when I was in the business. What happens is the rust and crud build up on the brackets and pads over time. Since you didn't change the pads I'm sure they had to clean those up too.

I've been out of auto work for a while now, but the way they used to do was the brake bracket would either bolt onto the steering knuckle (or just plain knuckle if in the rear) or it would actually be a part of the knuckle casting, then the rotor slides on over the wheel studs (sometimes the rotor goes on before the bracket, it depends on the make/model), the pads would then slide into the bracket, usually with some kind of anti-rattle hardware, then the brake caliper would slide over the pads and be bolted to the bracket. The pads have to be able to slide freely as the brakes are applied and released.

It's just my opinion but I have stopped changing just the pads or rotors separately. I have always ended up with the brakes pulsating if I just change one or the other. I just go ahead and change pads and rotors together now.

 

It doesn't make sense that the rotors needed replacing and the pads did not. How many miles on your FEH & how many times have the pads been replaced before this?

If this is your first brake job... it just doesn't make sense that the rotors needed replacing with out the pads being worn down to metal to metal contact on the rotors.

The rear brakes are drum in hat type. They are discs for the major braking and drum for the parking brake. Since the parking brakes absorb little wear & tear they should rarely ever require replacing. The parking brakes being only used when the vehicle is stopped mean essentially no wear & tear on them.

The lubing of the brakes or support spindles should have been part of the brake job, listing it as separately chargeable item (when they take it apart anyway, clean it up a bit, and just put some lube on it on reassembly) strikes me as padding the bill.

What I'd like to know is why they didn't charge you for a "software kit." This is rubber grommets and flex stuff to protect the spindles and such. I guess if they didn't rebuild the calipers then this is NA.

My recollection of rotor costs at NAPA for a Suburban rotors were around $50-60 per rotor. These drum in hat types may be more expensive but $124 @ strikes me as a bit high. Price them at NAPA sometime.

Charging you for $42 for installation of new rotors... give me a break... any idea how easy it is to swap a rotor? Unless the old ones are frozen in place (which does happen) it is a one minute job per rotor for new ones.

Only if resurfacing the old rotors and reinstalling them is the rotor charge reasonable...

The shop supply charge covers things like the tube of lube for the spindles and others supplies that is used on multiple jobs. Not unreasonable except for the other things I think they padded you on.

I do my own brake work and the last time I did my Suburban front brakes the cost, after core charge returns, was around $150. New rotors, calipers and lifetime pads. I do NAPA stuff.

 

Bill is correct. I suspect, from my own experience that "up-selling" brake rotors has become a common occurance.

It helps to know the mileage on the vehicle. If your vehicle has less than 75,000 (in my opinion 175,000) it should not need new rotors.

Rotors must be replaced if they reach their service limit (too thin) or are grooved or warped. If the brakes are designed and installed properly, the pads are the 'sacrificial' component that wear out and get replaced. The rotors should last several pad replacement cycles.......UNLESS they become scored (grooved) and this usually happens when you go too long between pad replacements (brake pad material entirely gone - metal to metal contact) or some other serious error in the brake system. In no way should the rotor be scored/grooved and the pads still have thickness above their service limit --- that's just not how the disc brake concept works. (Unless these are the 3rd or 4th set of pads you have had on the vehicle and the scoring was missed at an earlier pad change)

Warping does sometimes occur due to localized heating......... and there is a runout tolerance that can be checked - but my contention is that brake systems are designed to convert vehicle motion into heat and if rotors are ruined due to overheating....they are poorly designed or are not installed properly. One dealer tried to tell me I had "hot spots" on the front rotors of an Acura I own (discoloration due to overheating) and they told me they needed to be replaced. When this is stated, everyone needs to ask the service writer..."what are the service limits and what are the actual dimensions" Warped rotors can cause pulsations at the pedal but if designed properly rotors should never warp under normal operation!

Rotors that measure out of spec or below their service limits should be replaced. Rotors that legitimately need replacing before the pads are replaced 3 or 4 times (rotors should last at least 120,000m as a bare minimum) - are not properly designed or installed. [exceptions might be made for extremely poor drivers-heavy brakers]

 

1. see my other rant ...i mean post
2. normally, they should not
3. Yes, except special steps have to be taken to de-energize the hydraulic brake reservoir and disconnect power to the hydraulic brake pressurization system (that pumping noise you hear when you unlock the door, before you get in and turn on the vehicle)

 

Drum in hat brakes

When I found out Ford put drum in hat brakes on my FEH I was furious. I've had this before on another car and really did not like it. They are overly complex as compared to disc brake calipers with a parking brake feature built in, like on my Mustang.

I did not like working on them and view them as a cheap way of saying "four wheel disc brakes" without changing a production line.

If and when an outfit like Stainless Steel Brakes puts together a kit to replace these with straight disc brakes with a parking brake feature in them I'll change these cheapo disc brakes out in a heartbeat.

 

In my experience brake pads "eat" the rotor thickness, eventually wearing it down to the minimum acceptable thickness, and it takes several pad changes before this happens. Often this happens because the pads are not releasing properly, due to mixed brake fluid, rust in the hydraulics, etc. It's best to stay with the same fluid all the time.

Also, I think service departments are over zealous in resurfacing disks, imho it's rarely needed. I'm not sure how much they plane off each time, but it can't help.

A couple of fairly cheap tools worth acquiring are a dial gauge, complete with magnetic stand, and a micrometer. This will allow you to check for run out, thickness and thickness variation. Also, you want to look them over for grooving.