Hi Helterskelter683:

___Do not even think about questioning your HCH’s capabilities! It is an excellent hypermiling automobile and the GH RHMDB points this out from both the # of valedictorian’s as well as both the CVT and 5-speed’s overall FE averages! When out on the highway in a slow cruise, your ability to run in lean-burn mode makes up for all the Prius II’s extreme advantages in the city. The fact that you can FAS is a distinct advantage as well but it’s the gyrations needed to perform it that are very un-natural vs. a small change in accelerator pedal angle like the Prius II and the Escape HEV to enter into an ICE-Off – EV mode/Glide below 41 miles per hour. NASAngineeer, your HCH-II as well

___I have not had the chance to run a Prius II in a tight or distant draft so I do not know exactly how it would perform but it does have a lot of electronics staying in synch at that high a speed. I would give the HCH-I the edge in a tight and distant draft given my very short time behind the wheel at 55 + miles per hour in the Prius II … I hope some of the Prius II owning members will reply to bring some clear thoughts to the discussion one way or the other. I would also give the HCH the edge in shorter drives from cold. Here is the reasoning … The Prius II doesn’t hit its stride (Glide, EV mode, and an efficient ICE) until it’s warmed up like any other automobile. I took one for an ~ 7 mile segment in 32 degrees F from cold about 2 years ago and it was a huge struggle to get 57.x mpg from it. Consider the Prius II without ICE-Off - EV in the FTP75. This is where the Prius II’s FE can get ugly quick. You lose AS in the HCH-I and II as well as a somewhat less efficient ICE in the cold but because AS is not nearly the FE attribute that ICE-Off EV/Glide is in the Prius II, you do not take as hard a hit imho. Remember, you can always FAS an HCH-I or II even if they are not warmed up. You cannot do that in a Prius II while waiting for the coolant temp to climb and post O2 sensor to signal a lit CAT so that all her tricks work like they are supposed too

___NASAgineer, now that you have some hypermiling experience under your belt, do you think you could take your HCH-II back into the high 30’s instead of the low 50’s for FE? Although I would be sick afterwards, I know I could take the Accord right back down into the mid 20’s like everybody else is receiving in Accord’s in Chicago’s weather, temperatures as of late, and traffic conditions. Honda could and did the same to the Prius II more then likely. Let me put it this way. I know a well setup, CVT based HCH-I is good for ~ 110 mpg in a std. – lower speed P&G with no lights or stops. The Prius II is good for well beyond 120 with far worse traffic/signal conditions. If you owned a Prius II for a month or two and were stuck in city/suburban like traffic conditions, you would be using all of its built in tools to maintain outrageous FE as well you should. I am not saying the average untrained driver can or will do this (we know they will not) but you, HelterSkelter683, and any other hypermiler here at GH that pushes tanks would not settle for 40 - 45 mpg around town in a Prius II when 65 + is only a few accelerator pedal maneuvers away. This is why I have to believe the Honda engineers or techs who drove the Prius II for their own testing would not have optimized her in their own, quasi city test(s).

___Tbaleno, the EV/Glide mode of the HCH-II is still spinning over that ICE. The HCH-I or II in a FAS is still better at saving fuel. I do not know all of the HCH-II’s secrets yet and may never know most in fact. I will say that for the average driver, the HCH-II should beat the Prius II given the increased efficiencies Honda has given it and when looking at the RHMDB of today. For those in an all out war for every last ounce of gasoline (I know a guy like that ), the Prius II in the city has to many advantages over and above the HCH-I or II. Once Honda moves IMA to the other side of the transmission housing, supplies a bit larger pack, and a much more powerful MGSet, they will take the Prius II’s advantages to the woodshed. As of this writing, I do not think Honda has a shot at the FE crown in a deep inner city environment no matter if it’s the Insight, the HCH-I or HCH-II. I would hate to go head to head against a valedictorian rated hypermiler in a Escape HEV let alone a much more efficient Prius II in a deep inner city, 24 + hour marathon in my Insight. It would be a battle royale of course but I would be an extremely tired, sore, and quite literally brain dead individual from the amount of concentration and estimations needed vs. just the tired HSD/eCVT’er …

___Let me finish up with this. If I commuted 15 + miles in extremely heavy traffic through the heart of any major city in the US today, I would choose to own a Prius II. If I were driving a 15 + mile 50/50 mixed commute (deep inner city/highway), I think the HCH-II would be the best choice. If I were not driving the Accord on my lengthy 90% highway commute w/ the occasional 5 - 20 mile traffic nightmare thrown in for good measure, the 00 Insight (although they are not that comfortable) or the 03 - 05 HCH-I non-PZEV with a stick would be my #1 choice(s). For the wife, a Ford Escape HEV might be the right choice given her want for a larger, AWD vehicle that sits in a 10 + mile - 45 minute nightmare every morning. The RXh and HH have not yet proven themselves to be in the same league as that of the Escape HEV to date … Tom, you appear to drive in scenario #2 and the CVT based HCH-I is perfect for it! Helterskelter683, because you are willing to go all out, the HCH is perfect for you! NASAgineer, from your traffic descriptions (higher speed – lesser traffic), the HCH-II sounds perfect for your commute. There is no right or wrong but there are degrees of choice. I hope I made my own thoughts clear enough so that those hell bent on saving every last drop know what may be in their best interest irregardless of $’s spent, looks, features, options, size, and/or attributes from the various high FE hybrid’s available to us today.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes