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Old 04-28-2006, 11:10 PM
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bwilson4web bwilson4web is offline
Engineering first
 
Real Name: Bob
Location: Huntsville, AL
Hybrids: Prius Classic 03
Posts: 4,752
Default Re: Good comparison of Honda vs Toyota?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakedude
Bob I couldn't help but notice that you left my car out of your discussion.
Correct. In engineering, we like to keep as many items constant as possible and limit the variations to just one. I would have no problem with comparing the manual transmission Honda Civic to the two Honda CVT models:

City:
48 mpg - Civic I CVT
46 mpg - Civic I MT
49 mpg - Civic II CVT

Highway:
47 mpg - Civic I CVT
51 mpg - Civic I MT
51 mpg - Civic II CVT

When the Prius manual transmission comes out, I look forward to comparing it to the Civic manual transmission (don't hold your breath.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakedude
If you look at our database you will see that Toyota's EPA figures are inflated much higher than Honda's. . . .
The EPA figures comes from the exact same driving profile for each car. The GH database is useful for showing what a set of users are reporting and their differences with the EPA MPG simply restates the obvious . . . the EPA protocol needs to be updated. Until then, the EPA protocol is the only controlled, engineering reproducable data we have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakedude
The Insights (MT followed by the CVT at a distant second) and manual tranny Civic take the top 3 mpg spots. All the Honda's are getting very close to their EPA ratings. The Toyota's are not even close! Using EPA City (instead of a combined figure) is even more misleading.

According to EPA city the Prius2 gets 60mpg but in real life the Prius2 only gets 47.5mpg, a 26% exaggeration!

By comparison my car is rated 46mpg City but in real life gets 48.3, a full 5% more than EPA city.
I guess I'm confused by your signature, "61.8". Did I miss something? How did you measure "48.3"? Is that from just the online display?

The reason I ask is the last two weeks and three fill-ups, my Prius I is showing a range of 52-80+ mpg on my daily commute and that includes 1 out of 10 miles at highway speeds. The weekly numbers are: 57.7, 63.9 and 54.2 mpg. My weekend, highway numbers are: 62.4, 54.3 and 50.5 mpg measured at the pump.

Here is my commute route. What is yours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakedude
The Prius is a fantastic car but it does not walk on water and it does not get 60 mpg in the hands of most drivers.
Good thing we don't use the combined MPG but just the City EPA number, right?

As for EPA numbers, I'm getting better than EPA with my NHW11, Prius I after my first 6 months, the winter months. I understand it may get better, we'll see. My combined MPG is coming in about 4.4% more than the EPA combined. But I notice you are #3 in the Honda Civic MT list and I'm only #5 in the Prius I list.

Bob Wilson

.

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My
other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
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