Here's one to balance out the "$5000 over MSRP" sales:

My cubemate, who used to be my roommate, is a previous owner of three Hybrids plus he leased an EV-1 for our company in the mid-90s. He and I know a lot about Hybrids.

His brother, who lives in Michigan in the Detroit area, is buying an Escape Hybrid. He works for a company who is a Ford supplier, so he gets a better price, something called the "X Plan" or the "Ex Plan". But his neighbor is a current Ford employee and gets an even BETTER PRICE, the "A Plan." (Those are Ford programs and terms for discounting prices to certain groups I suppose.)

Anyhoo, the point of the story is that he's going to get the Escape somewhere near $20,000 to $21,000 out the door. :o

So at least one person is getting a good price.