i'm sorry, but i only know a very few words of spoken Japanese, and can't read 'em at all. the online translation didn't add a lot of info, though...
how big are the supercapacitors that were used in that truck?
aha... read both translations.. 1,500 Farads. 583 watt-hours.....
so my Camry's 70-Amp-Hour battery, at maybe an average of ten volts, stores about 700 watt-hours? one car battery = 1.2 x 128 cells of a 1,500 Farad supercapacitor.
hmmmm.... i'm not sold yet...
please explain what i'm missing, here? a few decimal points?
i think, from my EE estimation, that the supercapacitor is a very nice way to supply super-high peak currents for a short time for the traction motors, alleviating some hign-current charge and discharge stresses for the batteries.
but there just ain't enough energy in there to move the car more than, well, feet, or dozens of feet, but no way: miles.
any math majors or physics majors out there who can help?
how big are the supercapacitors that were used in that truck?
aha... read both translations.. 1,500 Farads. 583 watt-hours.....
so my Camry's 70-Amp-Hour battery, at maybe an average of ten volts, stores about 700 watt-hours? one car battery = 1.2 x 128 cells of a 1,500 Farad supercapacitor.
Let's face the 583 Wh spec.
Why do you compare it to your Camry 12V battery?
Let's compare it to hybrid battries.
(Please note that we use about 20% of the whole capacity.)
Prius: 202V X 6.5Ah X 20% = 260 Wh
HCH: 158V X 5.5Ah X 20% = 174 Wh
The good thing about the supercapacitor is low internal resistance and very long cycle life.
Let's face the 583 Wh spec.
Why do you compare it to your Camry 12V battery?
Let's compare it to hybrid battries.
(Please note that we use about 20% of the whole capacity.)
Prius: 202V X 6.5Ah X 20% = 260 Wh
HCH: 158V X 5.5Ah X 20% = 174 Wh
The good thing about the supercapacitor is low internal resistance and very long cycle life.
Ken@Japan
exactly right, ken... the point i was trying to make was that, it keeps sounding to me like people are expecting supercapacitors to replace batteries in electrics or hybrids soon, and i'm very doubtful of that until they're at least about one order of magnitude better in energy density or capacity.
the drive battery is only used for 20% of its capacity because deep-discharge is definitely not one of its strengths. the supercapacitor, i'm guessing, doesn't care about deep discharge, but that also means the assumption of going from fully-charged to fully-discharged, and believe me, i wouldn't envy the engineers who'd be tasked with converting anywhere from zero to several hundred volts into something to send to a drive motor.... that kind of range would pose some challenges that would either send them off a tall cliff or have them end up with a design range of using just the top 20% of the supercap's juice, just like the NiMH cells of today!
i do think that supercaps will shine in hybrids as short-term energy sources,maybe for better off-the-line acceleration or to offload the drive battery up to maybe 30 mph instead of 10-20.
The combination of super caps and battery for long-term energy storage would be the best solution. The problem with the battery in the Prius is that it can only deliver around 20kW, yet the main traction motor can use 50kW, so the difference has to come from the ICE generating through the smaller motor. I have a feeling that new capacitor technology as well as battery technology will eventually kind of merge in the sense that both will be in use, and they will share some common chemistry.
The combination of super caps and battery for long-term energy storage would be the best solution. The problem with the battery in the Prius is that it can only deliver around 20kW, yet the main traction motor can use 50kW, so the difference has to come from the ICE generating through the smaller motor. I have a feeling that new capacitor technology as well as battery technology will eventually kind of merge in the sense that both will be in use, and they will share some common chemistry.
yes, that sounds teriffic! and we can only imagine what at GenIII or GenIV Prius would do with double- or quad-power-density batteries, plus supercaps!
wow!
but keep in mind: batteries store energy by chemical reactions, in a simple sense; capacitors do not. their energy storage is in stretching or distorting the molecules or atoms, while piling up electrons on one terminal and depleting them from the other, in the insulating, or dielectric material, not by chemically changing them.
Re: 1997 - 2006 Prius
the online translation didn't add a lot of info, though...
