Ok,

So a friendly dealer here in Boston willingly agreeed to borrow me a Prius for 24hrs. They have a rental prius but they won't even charge me to rent it. I consider this very nice. They also seemed to talk MSRP for the car which is what I had come to expect. He did mention a 4-6 months wait (worse then I hoped) and that they can't yet order package #8 but they can get package #7. The difference is leather seats.

note: this is long and rambling. I wanted to capture all my feelings "on paper" to make a more logic decision (and to see what feeling change or solidifies). I was also too lazy to spell check so bare with me!

I've been driving the car for about 1 hour as I write this (I will post follow up comments tonight/tomorrow). The car I've borrowed is a loaded 05 (with smart key, nav system, JBL etc). I'm driving it in Boston which today is a whopping 37F.

First I took it around the neighbourhood streets of the dealership to warm it up and get comfy with all the buttons) and then on the highway (93 south) doing no more then 65mph. During this phase I wasn't so interested in mpg but more about the handling/power/feeling. My initial feeling is that the car is well built and relativley quiet even at highway speeds. Maybe not as quiet as my 98 Maxima but comparable (and the Maxima is a more upscale car).

I must confess that It felt even less powerful then I thought it would but after driving it some more I'm starting to think this is mostly because the ICE doesn't rev the same way a normal car would as well as the lack of gear shift. A rocket it is not but it seem to keep up well in traffic and I might have been accelerating harder then I thought. I need to confirm this with more driving.

Cabin is nicley layed-out and spacious. Not as big or expensive feeling as I had hoped but more then adequate. The funky speedometer placement is functional but I still need to warm up to digital read out (though it might be good for P&G to ensure you keep it under 41). The display is nice and the access to radio, climate control etc logical.
The climate control set to auto seems to do a good job of keeping the cabin warm w.o using the fam much. It also switched between different modes (like pushing heat to the feet etc). I didn't have a problem with fogging but I'm not sure if that was the weather or the climate control. I had it set to Auto all the time. The whole car screams gadetry, not neccesarily a bad thing (I like gadgets) but it could be designed to look better.
Driving position is about as good/bad as I thought it would be. Seat is slightly to short for me (I'm 6'3" and 200lbs with long legs/arm) so it doesn't give as much leg support as I wanted. There is more then enough leg room though as I don't have the chair all the way back (but almost). I wish they would put in a better seat as an option (I winder if there are aftermarket seats that could be used). The seat back is also very "steppy". It's either 90 degrees or it's like 75 degrees. I would like to keep it at 80. Lumbar support is not good. It feel more like a corrolla then a camry but it's adequate for comuting but probably not great for longer trips. I don't think my maxima has good seats but they are still better.
The wheel only tilts slighty up and down and I didn't really feel a big difference. I would like to pull the wheel towards me about 1 inch but it's not a bad position as it is. The wheel has about 5 million buttons on it and they are NOT laid out nicley. That said they seem pretty handy and I think I would get used with them. Still which they had a less tacky look.

The JBL stereo is rather bad, the sound is boxy and bass plentiful but fuzzy, the mid range weak and the tweeter sounds like a tin can. Best sound so far is setting the low and high range flat and bumping the mid range up a couple of steps. For being a premium package it doesn't provide much hifi sound (reminds me of rental car stereos but a little better). I don't even want to think about what the standard sound system must sound like. It's nice to have a 6 CD changer in the dash. That said I'm spoiled with my Maxima's Bose system that is one of the better I've heard.

The rearview mirror takes up half the windshield, I found that I had too look around it during slow speed right turns (this has the autodim feature). Is the standard winshield smaller?

There is a suprising amount of room in the rear. and with the seats down there is room for a lot of luggage but the roof height (with seats down) where lower then I expected. I wonder if my german shepherd will fit in there with the seats down or if he will be confined to the rear seats. The rear seatc give about as much room for him as my maxima does.

The second part of the trip was my comute ride from home to work. This is mostly back roads and no faster then 40mph roads (mostly 35mph). There was a lot more traffic then normal for this ride since it was lunch time. I tried to drive the prius carefully but not overdoing it. For the trip i got 46.4 mpg. This was in 37F weather and while I was hoping at closer to 50 it still was quite good. I was also using the cruise control a bit on certain 35 mph roads but I don't think the cruise control is doing so well as it kept the gas engine running the whole time. Towards the end of the trip I tried to driving carfully myself and I think that works better. I was able to maintain speed with electric only or coasting for quite some stretches. So I think the cruise control is out for my commute. Then again maybe running the ICE is overall more effective? I don't know, it need to be tested.

I did understand the "pulse and glide" part. If you let go of the gas completly the car will imediatley jump into regen mode (as seen on the display). If you then push down the gas pedal ever so slighty it goes from regen (slowing down) to coasting. It coasts well. You can see that you are coasting by no arrows going anywhere on the screen. I did find that it's very easy to push a little to far and use the batteries but if you let go and reaplly it most often work. I think this will be importand for good gas milage and also having happier cars behind you as the regen mode slows the prius down more quickly then other cars that coast.

For people with experience if the prius: How good bad is 46.4 mpg for a 35 minute commute on lightly trafficed 35mph roads in 37F degree weather? I have no idea what the tire pressure is but the car felt very soft.

So in summary: I like many apsects of the car. It's def a good city and comute car. It feel like a upscale corrolla with a more interesting design. For 25-30.000K it wouldn't be too bad a price even without the hybrid technology. It's really nice to stand at red lights and coast in traffic with out using the engine. Makes you feel all good inside. I think this is the car for me as it's "good enough" but I'm not walking away with that must have feeling I was hoping for(though I was looking at more expensive cars). I might wait for the Camry Hybrid to show. I'm not found of driving the Camry as I want something quirker but of the Camry gets 50mpg compared to the Prius 60 then I might trade 10 mpg for a better cabin. Does anyone have more info on the Camry? It should be announced about now right? But I think the highlander and rx400 is out and it's likley that I end up with a prius. Might as well get on that wait list while I make up my mind :-)

 

good first impression it I'm sure details about the Camry hybrid will show up after the Auto Show in Detroit goes live.

 

Take a look at the "Compare" tab for the Prius II experience. Mileage vs temperature is available in the data.

I have an 03 Prius and am very happy. But our other car is a Toyota Echo and our Prius was bought to replace our 91 Camry. Still, you're taking the right approach on test driving.

In 2001, we rented a Prius for two days to get a real handle on it. But the price-performance didn't make sense so we bought the 01 Echo. Since then, used Prius have became available which is how we got our 03 Prius.

Bob Wilson

 

Thanks,

Looking at the user data it seems to be a little low but inline with what I can expect for the temperature. I'm sure driving technique will make a difference. The question is how big.

I've been thinking some more and this is my current thinking. It will probably take some time before hybrid camrys become available and I'm not sure I want to wait that long for a camry. It's also more then likley that Lexus will come out with a camry cloned hybrid within a couple of years and then there are rumors about a HSDII. So I'm thinking that this might be a great car for a couple of years (3-5) and I might then trade up. My initial feeling was for me too keep this car as long as my Maxima (8+ years).

Anyway. I like the car on many levels yet one always want more!

 

Couldn't concentrate at work so I took another quick test spin, and tested the DVD and the traction control (a little). I'm warming up to this car. It's a different experience to drive and you need to relearn how you communicate with it. It seems to like normal (slow) acceleration and then letting of the gas for just a second. Doing that normally leaves you cruising for quite a distance in "yellow arrow" mode (i.e batteries only. Accelerating using EV mode is almost out of the question but maintaining works great. Finding that sweet spot for gliding also seems to work as the weight of the prius makes it glide long.

It handles like a heavy car and the suspension is too soft yet the simple rear axle makes it a litte bumpy. It feel like a SUV at times. I think the Rav4 would make a sweet hybrid (maybe a cross between the prius and the rav4 would be ideal). I am getting more impressed by the sound level. It is a quiet car, probably more quiet then my maxima but not as quiet as a luxury car. I still can't believe how good it feels standing at red lights with no engine on. I'm sure that doesn't really save that much gas but still it's sweet.

The ABS and Traction Control seem quite good. I didn't push it but at lower speed it def could break suprisingly well on snow and I couldn't force it into a skid. This is one of the main reason I'm trading my car as my current car doesn't have ABS something I consider cruisal (and I did a mistake buying a car w.o. it).

I'm also getting more comfortable with the rearview mirror. Though the top end is low you can actually see quiet well backwards. Same for side views. It's not bad, it just felt strange to begin with. I still haven't paralell parked this thing. I also wonder what if any value the rearview camera in the 06 has.

Having this ride for 24 hours is probably a good thing as it allows me to get a real good feel for the car.

The DVD navigation system is good and the display/voice seem accurate. I do miss that 3D view that Garmin I5 gives. I like that you can switch between the map and the hybrid info from the steering wheel as I still like to see what the arrows are doing.

/Robert

 

The best way to understand the impact of driving technique is to look at the variability or distribution of mileage for the different cars. I've only looked at the Prius I and Prius II but the Prius I has a non-symetrical curve with a longer tail on the high mileage side. This suggests some drivers are able or learn to exploit the Prius I to get better mileage than the others. If you see a symetrical, bell-curve or a very narrow bell-curve, it suggests there is less variability under driver control.

That is a reasonable approach but also realize you have the option of going "used" which we didn't have in 2001. Take a look at some of the Ebay listings (especially the completed) and you'll see what I mean. Of course "used' won't give you the tax advantage and warrantee will be partially used up. But then you won't be out so much money either.

The last time I had a car that I actually enjoyed working on was the first car I'd ever bought, a used, 1966 VW microbus. It was the last year for the 6 V. electrical system and thanks to a shop-rag and inattentive relative, I got to rebuild the engine when I came back from Okinawa. But I got all of my money out that car and enjoyed the heck out of it. BTW, it too had a 1500 cc engine but only got ~30-32 MPG. Back then, that was phenominal mileage.

Good luck in whatever decision you make. If you do want to consider going 'used', the rule of thumb:

- buy only from a dealer (ensures inspection and clean title)
- Ebay requires a credit-card record before letting you bid on items costing car range
- know the blue-book value and stay in that range (when mine came up, I pounced on it!)
- auctions are for patient people, "Buy now" is more practical
- good, fast and cheap -- pick two of three

Bob Wilson

 

Bravo for finding just about every major Prius complaint, in your first day of driving. You were paying attention.

I can understand being distracted by the car. It's a completely different transmission, than a manual or automatic. In many ways, it's more complicated, challenging, and fun than a manual transmission. I drove stick all my life, until my Prius.

<i>For people with experience if the prius: How good bad is 46.4 mpg for a 35 minute commute on lightly trafficed 35mph roads in 37F degree weather? I have no idea what the tire pressure is but the car felt very soft.</i>

For a new driver it's ok. Was the engine warm or did you start the commute with a cold engine? Are the roads flat? These things make a big difference in fuel economy. If you were to pulse & glide, with a warm engine, on flat roads, with no passengers, you could easily get 60MPG. A hard-core hypermiler could do even better.

 

We were in Boston for 6 days over Christmas and drove my 2004 Prius up and back. The temps weren't quite as low, but for our in-town driving (up and down RT 3 and then some of the backroads), we averaged 45. For the actual highway driving from DC to Boston, about 50. One thing I noticed (aside from there being NO Priuses there--I actually got waved at!) was that in downtown Boston (near Chinatown and the Science Museum) the Navigation was not accurate (probably all the construction due to the Big Dig). If that is important to you, you might want to make sure to get an '06 and updated DVD. The navigation was GREAT for the whole way up and back, including going entirely back roads from Plymouth to Newport, RI.

--
Hillary

 

I would never even worry anymore about factory leather seating since becoming familiar with Classic Soft Trim, a company that many dealers, especially Toyota, use for customers that want leather.

http://www.classicsofttrim.com/

They can put in a set of leather seating/leather door panels in a couple of hours that match the factory fit and finish and even better than some factory stuff. One plus is that it dont show up on the yearly car tax bill since it is aftermarket. Get it done yourself and save the dealer markup! They are located in the large cities. There are others too, but cant vouch for them as I have only seen this Companies work on at least five vehicles. For the record, I have no connection/interest in this company. I have only took cars to them to have leather installed.

As for the Prius, I would not get the $6k or so option. I would get the cheap one and buy a Garmin Nav system to use and they are even coming out with one that has XM radio built in. Dont know what else the Prius package has for $6K, but I did not see it in one I just took on +100 mile trip.
I have a 05 Civic Hybrid and would not trade for a Prius even now. I would look at the 06 Honda Civic Hybrid. Prius badly needs a new body style, a better ride and less noisy engine. Of course, to each his own, it is all in what you like. Both are good vehicles. Prius does get a little better mileage than my Honda.

 

Thanks for the comments. It's not true that the Prius is uncommon here anymore. I see several everyday here in Cambridge.

I noticed the same thing with the nav system. It didn't have all the exists for 93. It also got confused when I was driving on a side street basically on top of 93. I would suspect the DVD will get updated for the 06.

I did some more test riding in colder weather (to and from work) and average 56 mph once the engine was arm. I'm starting to figure out how to drive it