"___With that, I would not want to be in your situation given the location. It is one thing for us flatlanders as you say to be able to avoid the pack throughout all driving cycles and another entirely for someone in your locale. Either way, I do know how to climb 6 - 7% grades in an Insight 5-speed without assist while maintaining 19 - 20 of 20 bars on the SoC and it is not in first gear at 15 miles per hour. I am in the truck climbing lane with the emergencies on running second gear at > 2,700 RPM just below VTEC engagement and just above any assist for FE purposes."

Wayne,

Thanks again for your insight - no pun intended. I agree with being able to maintain driving without assist below the VTEC engagment on a 6%-7% grade - unless you are near to max load. When I drive by myself, I can maintain this. When I have a passenger it becomes much more problematic. Of course FE in this situation is pretty much gone.

At this point I'm hoping to thow a cell or an IMA light ASAP. Isnt' that great? I have to hope that my car fails. This is a problem with Honda's policy in this regard. Once it does, and I get a new pack, I will trade my Insight in for a Prius, and CVT be darned - I'll accustomize myself to driving without a manual. For people in my situation, it is simply a better designed car than the Hondas - period.

Thanks again.

= Ed =

Just to clarify for folks, the Prius has something that gets the same sort of results as a CVT (no shifting) but it's not really a CVT, it's technically not changing the ratio at all, it's like being in 5th gear all the time. The electric motors are so strong that they have no trouble launching the car in 5th gear so at lower speeds you are just using the electric motor to move the car and the ICE will run simply to generate some power for the electric motor until the car gets up to speed so the ICE can contribute directly to the motion of the vehicle. I know I used to think the Prius had an actual CVT and there was a variable ratio gear system, but what I learned recently has changed that understanding.

A used Prius 2001-2003 may be an adequate replacement for the Insight. Around here they sell used for about the same price, so it may not even cost you much. We have the 2001 Prius and we live in a very hilly area. Your FE will take a hit going up a hill, but the car manages very well in performance and battery management regardless of how hard you drive it. Toyota got rid of the turtles in the Japan-only first gen.

2001 Prius Photos       2005 Prius Photos
'97 Prius Simulation Prius inner workings

Thanks for the VERY informative posts, Wayne.

I've been thinking about tinting my car, and after reading this thread, I am adequately motivated. Letting a breath of air into the cabin when the car is sitting out in the sun is also advice no one should ignore without a really good reason.

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

Hi EdRotberg:

___Whooa, I never mentioned A/C. I might have used A/C maybe 4 or 5 times in total while I owned the Insight. What I did do however is have the Fan at MAX without A/C at all times anytime the internal temp of the car was > 70 degrees while I was driving. No A/C but forced airflow which itself works its way through the pack with the packs internal fans helping along the way. With very little to no pack use (there was always some given the ICE balance activity she was designed to perform) and/or IMA starts, you are not generating any real heat at the source (at the pack) thus 90 - 105 internal ambient would be perfectly acceptable imho. I did not use Regen other then when it was a necessity to hit the binders and you may as well get something back. The “Driving Without Brakes” technique was being implemented more then I care to admit but the small regen hits would be of such a short duration and spaced so far apart as to be of no concern using my own brand of pack management. It is the parking lot on a hot sunny day scenario that I was extremely concerned about then and would be today if I owned another hybrid. These are just theories but theory’s that make perfect sense given all I had read in the various hybrid forums, the national labs reverse engineering of the Prius I and Insight, and my own brand of common sense before purchase is all.

___My methods were bleeding edge and ones you may not find convenient, natural, or even comfortable. With that, I know how I handled a hybrid’s pack in the past and I would not change my methods even today vs. most everyone else that would just get in and drive. My use of IMA starts however was a whole other matter

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

Hi All:

___I am falling behind the posts as I type up my own. I am a slow typer making a lot of mistakes as I go and must edit quite a bit before hitting submit (I don’t really know how to type ) so pardon my own replies that seem out of synch with the responses ahead of them.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

Ed,

How many miles does your insight have ?

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

Ed,

I think everyone is in agreement that your battery pack is aging fast from mountain driving. I was wondering how bad the batteries are.

If you have an occasion to find a strech of road that is relatively flat for several miles, you might want to see if your battery charge is full. If you have that chance and the charge is full, the batteries are probably OK. Then you might be able to see the Insight and get a Prius, saying you want more than a 2-seater. If you sell it to a flatlander, it might be a win-win situation.

Hope that helps.

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

An ignorant, naive flatlander perhaps, so long as you don't bother to mention multiple recals ..

I get the impression Ed is not that kind of person.

That is actually how my wonderful Honda Civic was sold. My wife wanted a new car, and I acquiesced because of the Prius. One of our two cars had to go, and the obvious one was the Subaru. Only problem was that there had been 3 or so instances when the engine had died during driving over the last couple of years. I could not withold that kind of information from a prospective buyer, and I couldn't imagine anybody buying the car knowing it, at least at a price worth considering. I thought quite a bit about just *giving* the car to someone in need, but in the end the Honda was sold.

Happily, the people that bought it are good folk, and will appreciate the car like I did. The experience was somewhat similar to finding a home for a kitten.

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

I noticed one of the things 'standard' on the Prius is "High Energy Solar Absorbing Window Glass" probably helps save some on battery abuse.

2001 Prius Photos       2005 Prius Photos
'97 Prius Simulation Prius inner workings

I hate to say this, but the mountains favor the over-powered conventional gasoline engines. Hybrid engines in general, and the IMA in particular were not designed to frequently be driven in the passing lane mode - a situation many mountain drivers are faced with. I don't mean passing other drivers a lot, but applying that kind of power.

On a personal note, next month I attempt to run up Pikes Peak. If any of you have acess to a treadmill, jog at a normal setting, then set the incline setting to 12% or as far as it will go. This is your car in the mountains - any questions?

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated