My wife and I will be purchasing one of these two cars likely within the week. This car will primarily be my wife's car. We live in upstate NY where we average 120 inches of snow per season, but also see all 4 seasons worth of weather. We have test driven both cars and we both like both cars about the same. We were looking for some opinions and information on these questions:

(1) If both the 2005 Civic EX AT and the 2005 HCH CVT AT-PZEV are driven exactly the same way, what do you think the difference would be in MPG overall? Her commute to work is roughly 15 miles one way with 5 miles at 40-45 miles per hour, 6 miles at 65-70 MPH, and 4 miles at 30 MPH. We would also likely take this car on 600 roundtrip highway miles 4 times a year. This would likely mean she would average roughly 12,000-15,000 miles per year.

(2) How much $$$ saved would that mean for gas? Does anyone have a good link to figure that out?

(3) Cost differential for normal maintenance (wear and tear, oil changes, brake work, etc). We are not "car handy" so we take our vehicles for services at dealers usually. Obviously, they are both Civics, but with the IMA system and different ICEs is there a $$$ difference in cost between the two for maintaining the car?

(4) We plan to keep this car for 8-10+ years. Will both of these cars hold the value roughly the same? Or, since Hybrid technology will be different in 8-10+ years, the HCH will actually lose a much larger $$$ value at that time.

Anything else anyone wants to add would be great. Thanks in advance for your time and information.

Answer to 1): I think it will be about the sticker difference, which is what, 14 MPG?
2) at 15,000 miles per year, the EX would cost (at $2 a gallon) $936 for the year and the HCH would cost you $625 per year, a savings of $311 per year.
3) cost for maintaining would be virutally identical - the IMA checks are included as a regular part of service trips.
4) The Hybrid is likely to hold it's value a little better, as in the history of US autos, any car in the same line which is "higher cost" holds that resale difference the entire lives of the cars. In other words, a 2002 Civic DX and a 2002 Civic EX will maintain a comparable resale difference in relation to their "new" price. Same should hold true with the Hybrids. Go to kbb.com and get Blue Book values on a 2003 Hybrid with 30,000 miles and a comparable 2003 EX with 30,000 miles and you will see what I mean....

Good Luck Shopping !!!

P.S. if you can wait about 4 months, the 're-designed' 2006 Civics will be available, more power and better MPG in the HCH than the current version.

How many trafic lights are their in your wifes trip?

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

There are about 10 traffic lights and 7 stop signs one way. (approximately).

lars-ss:

Well, that's what I'm hearing (about the 2006). But my wife's current lease ends Monday. We can wait a little, but I don't think we can go 4 months without it being a hassle.

Besides, wouldn't it be more expensive to get a 2006 right at the beginning of the sales years versus getting a 2005 mid-to late model (May)?

How different is it going to be?

You will probably get plenty of responses telling you all the good information you seek. So I will just add a few other observations:

- You will enjoy the relative ease with with the hybrid accelerates; the engine does not seem to have to work hard at all.

- You will enjoy the smooth quiet ride of the hybrid, because it can be geared so low due to the electric motor assist.

- You will enjoy knowing that you are contributing to an advanced technology which will hopefully relieve somewhat our energy requirements for the future.

Those are some of the reasons that for me personally, in 30+ years of owning automobiles, this is far and away my favorite.

You might try checking with AHFC (assuming that's who you leased the car with) about extending the lease by, say, 6 months. That'll get you to new HCH territory (assuming that it will be released at the same time as the regular 8th-gen Civic), past the "I have to have it now" crowd (and, thus, avoiding markups over and above MSRP, and perhaps even putting you in a stronger negotiating position ).

I had a friend who leased an Audi Quattro several years ago, and he was able to extend his lease on that car. Wasn't through Audi's leasing arm, however. YMMV.

If that's not possible, you should be able to negotiate a heck of a deal on one of the outgoing HCHs - but if I had the flexibility, I'd at least take a look at the 8th-gen Civic once it's available in the showroom.

Now, I'll play devil's advocate - being the 1st year of the redesign, I'll guess the 8th-gen will have a few bugs to work out. So you might want to wait until the 2nd year, or at least later in the 1st year cycle. But that's probably not feasible for your situation, unless you extended the lease for a whole year. If the HCH continues to be produced in Japan, you may get a more solid car, w/ regard to body integrity, based on my experience w/ Accords. Mechanicals probably wouldn't differ.

Good luck with whatever choice you make

Mark

Sometimes we could all use a little less

My hybrid automobiles:

Current:
2006 Honda Civic Hybrid (CVT, w/o Nav)
Magnetic Pearl / Blue - 008661, born 12/28/05
Mods: Neck pillows, Garmin C330 Nav, Draw-tite 1.25" hitch (for bikes, not towing!), Pioneer Inno XM receiver via Aux jack, OEM mud flaps, more to come!

Hypermiler status on 3/12/06 @ 3077mi.

Previous:
2005 Honda Accord Hybrid (5AT/Navi)
Desert Mist / Ivory - 001254
Retired 1/21/06 - LMPG 34.1

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with that many stoplights and stop signs, it will be hard to attain epa mileage with the civic hybrid, so pure calculation off the epa numbers should not be your only decision maker in this case.

take time to drive both cars and see which one you like better - that's the more important factor. hondas last a long time, so you want to make a decision that will land you with a car you'll feel comfortable with for a long time

(talking more about driving feel, ride height, wheel grip, handling, braking, etc, since the interior of both are about the same save the dash and chromed accents).

also consider if you move a lot of cargo - the civic hybrid rear seats dont fold down like the ex

however, i'm pretty sure you'll choose the hybrid version. if the blue lights dont catch you, or the instant torque, or the addictive game of increasing your mpg, then i dont know what will

Speaking of traffic lights and stop signs, here is another data point:

- I have 11-13 traffic lights (depending on my route) and 3 stop signs
- My commute is 6 miles
- Temperature extremes are about 30 to 105 degrees, winter to summer
- I drive roughly the speed limit, sometimes 5 miles per hour above

My lifetime mpg is about 46, mostly city. In the winter, my commute mpg was 42-44; in the spring it is 46-48.

Regarding the 2006 HCH: it may be as sweet as you hear sometimes in these forums, or it may be not that much different from today's model. It's pretty much speculation at this point. There are not any hard facts yet, other than the Honda guy saying "more power and more mileage"; but me being a sceptic, I guess I'd expect him to say that. Maybe it will be everything we hope it will be, but maybe not, so I guess I would recommend thinking carefully before you decide to wait. But then, I'm exceptionally happy with my 2005, so I'm somewhat biased.

I have a friend who bought an Civic EX about a 3 months ago. He tells me that he actually exceeds the EPA mpg.