Here's a couple of data points regarding EPA estimates and actual mileage for Civic versus Civic Hybrid.

Popular Mechanics did a cross-country trip with both a Civic and Civic Hybrid, going about 75-80mph. The hybrid got 42mpg, the non-hybrid 33.8mpg, about a 24% difference. They were each significantly short of their EPA estimates. (48 vs. 42 for the hybrid, 38 vs. 33.8 for the non) You can read the article here:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...tml?page=1&c=y

Another point is my personal experience, and that of a colleague: me with my HCH, he with his Subaru Impreza, equipped with a MPG display similar to most hybrids. His city mileage is just below the EPA estimate, as is mine. Same commute, same relative results.

I guess what I'm saying is that with the HCH, the EPA estimatation seems to be closer to reality than that for other hybrids. For whatever reason.

Hi Wxhall:

___Most here are hybrid enthusiasts in one form or another and I can tell you that a few weeks behind a game gauged equipped HCH, your FE will improve significantly above and beyond what the std. EX would have/could have offered. That being said, there are some great deals to be had on the 05 EX right now.

___GreenAndBlue, that was some great info on the lease extension. Extending their present lease out towards mid-January/early-February and then shopping for the new Civic when no one is shopping for an automobile could land Wxhall a decent deal on an 06 … hopefully.

___My opinion, wait for the 06.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

Thanks for those helpful articles and comments.

I'll add a little more to this. I called my honda dealer and he told me that Normal Oil Changes/LOF would be $7 more because the HCH uses a different (more expensive) oil than a regular EX. So, I guess that needs to be also factored in. One would probably need roughy 3-4 oil changes per year (15,000 miles in Severe Conditions from the owner's manual). I asked him if anything else is more expensive and he said no, although I would have to think that some labor on major problems could be much higher later because it may take longer to work on a hybrid vs regular car.

On a different thread: http://greenhybrid.com/discuss/showt...1&page=3&pp=10

this link: http://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/Documen...t/apl27540.pdf

was included. I'm no "techi" but assuming I would get a AT-PZEV and I live in NY... if you go to the IMA section, you'll see that the Battery Assembly is covered for 10 years and 150k miles and many other IMA components are covered 15 years/150k miles. (This is above and beyond the normal 8 year/80k coverage of the IMA battery.) Is this extended coverage for just the emissions, as opposed to full coverage? Basically, what I am asking is, if my IMA battery DIES at 9 years and 75k miles, am I covered or not for full replacement value?

Thanks about the suggestion of the extension of the lease. The lease is a 2002 VW Jetta. It's a long story but, we are not going to extend the lease. The lease is up Tuesday May 17th. We will probably go with one car or possibly borrow one from a family member if we really need to. But, I don't feel comfortable doing that for more than a few weeks max.

Anyway, it seems like the difference between the two cars is roughly 10 MPG +/-, which is nice. I'm just concerned that "down the road" 8-10 years, this car will require more expensive repairs and possible IMA battery replacement. Let's play devil's advocate. Let's say in 8-10 years, there were no major problems. If I try to sell the HCH trade it to a dealer or sell it locally on my own, won't they say either (1) I don't want that car, it's battery will probably die soon... or (2) Hybrids today are way more efficient than yours is. Bottom line in either case is that I might get sizeably less value for my trade or sell in 2014.

We also hope that in extreme cold and snow the hybrid doesn't have issues.

Anyway, we are really 50-50 on this decision. We like the positives of more space in the EX trunk and backseat and the fold downs. My wife does like the sunroof, too. But, we also likes the dash/IMA display in the HCH and the somewhat better MPG. Maybe we should just flip a coin.

All your posts give me the impression your heart if realy looking at the EX. I think that is what you should get.

No one will be able to answer your question about what the trade in value of a used hybrid will be. It could be in 8 to 10 years they find the hybrid batteries will last the actual life of the car. So far no one has reported a hybrid battery needing to be replaced and many hybrids have gone over the 100K mark. How long do you expect a car to last 100K, 200K, 300K? I would expect most cars are taken out of service before they hit 300K. If a battery could last that long then it isn't an issue. Only time will tell.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

tbaleno:

Actually, I'm not lying that it really is 50-50. If I can get the Hybrid around invoice, I think I'm going towards that. I'm still thinking about it.

The federal tax break would offset some of the price (200 to 500 depends on how much you make). Doesn't NY have a tax break for buying a hybrid of its own, something like 3000 exempt of the purchase price? I know Iowa has a bill in the house to reduce the registration fees to that of a truck.

Yes, I believe it is $2000 credit.

Maybe a minimal point, but if you're tall, the EX Civic has a standard moonroof, which could cut into your headroom just a bit.

My wife has the EX and I have the hybrid, so I know both cars very well.

The hybrid has slightly better interior trim than the EX. It also has auto-climate control which is a wonderful feature, and a mini-spoiler plus more stylish hubcaps.

I'll sum it up for you:

EX pluses: lower initial cost, more horsepower, more trunk room, moonroof, rear seat cup holder, more predictable maintenance.

Hybrid pluses: Much better mpg (about 50% is what we see in practice). Much quieter. Nicer display and interior trim. Lower emissions (SULEV vs. ULEV).

I think one of the overlooked benefits of a car with high mpg is that you don't have to fill up your tank as often. It's simply more convenient.