34 MPG??
#1
08-14-2005, 07:05 PM
34 MPG??
Hi,
I see this topic has been touched on a bit in the past, but I thought I'd seek some new information. Granted, I've only had my Civic for 100 miles but I'm worried about seeing the low-30s on my MPG indicator. The charger/assist gauge seems to be indicating that things are working but I'm still concerned. I'm well below even the fine print on the window sticker. As long as I have your eyes the auto-shutoff appears to be never 'doing it's thing' might these things be related? Thoughts? Having said all that, I LOVE the car. I traded my 350Z and feel great about it!
Thanks,
Brian
I see this topic has been touched on a bit in the past, but I thought I'd seek some new information. Granted, I've only had my Civic for 100 miles but I'm worried about seeing the low-30s on my MPG indicator. The charger/assist gauge seems to be indicating that things are working but I'm still concerned. I'm well below even the fine print on the window sticker. As long as I have your eyes the auto-shutoff appears to be never 'doing it's thing' might these things be related? Thoughts? Having said all that, I LOVE the car. I traded my 350Z and feel great about it!
Thanks,
Brian
#2
08-14-2005, 07:13 PM
Re: 34 MPG??
Make sure the econ button is lit for the auto-stop to kick on when you stop. If it isn't working, then it's something you should bring up with your dealer.
Dealing with a car that's designed with an underpowered gas motor and an underpowered electric motor that works together to get you down the road comes with some penalties that are more pronounced than on a regular car. When you run the AC, it's going to impact milage more than you're used to on a regular car.
Dealing with a car that's designed with an underpowered gas motor and an underpowered electric motor that works together to get you down the road comes with some penalties that are more pronounced than on a regular car. When you run the AC, it's going to impact milage more than you're used to on a regular car.
#3
08-15-2005, 09:07 AM
Re: 34 MPG??
Brian,
Dont' be discouraged. Some, like me, will acknowledge a break-in period (first 1 or 2K). However upon reflection, it may have been more on driving style than the car. I experienced mid to high 30's for the first 1-2K.
There are many tips on this site - I've cut and pasted from another post I replied to on this topic. This is by no means definitive, but should get you started:
1) Check your tire pressure. I run mine at 40psi - others run up to the limit of the tire (if you have the Dunlops, it's 51 I think). This has helped anyone who has tried it.
2) Drive like you have no brakes (but always be safe
) - use the regenerative braking to do as much of your speed management as you can. Learn to look ahead at the traffic flow and coast when you can. Accelerate slowly, and take your time when stopping to get the most out of the recharge.
3) Use the econ button, and roll down the windows instead of A/C when practical.
4) Try to keep you speed constant up hills.
5) Keep reading this site - there are lots of great tips.
You'll find that your overall MPG will have as much to do with your driving technique as your car. Because mileage information is plentiful in a Civic, you'll become aware of things that disappeared into the noise on your other cars.
On the Auto Stop, there are some conditions that need to be met. In my 03 HCH, the temp has to be above 41 degrees. The car needs to be warmed up (won't engage until 5 min into a drive). The button has to be pushed (yes, this happens). You have to have traveled at least 10 mph. If it's not auto stopping under those conditions, maybe you should have it checked.
Also, some environmental things:
- Obviously, A/C hurts your FE (you notice it more in this car)
- Rain, headwind, all work against FE (fuel efficiency)
- Temperature can hurt it at the extremes (hot and cold)
Good Luck! Glad you enjoy the car -
Dont' be discouraged. Some, like me, will acknowledge a break-in period (first 1 or 2K). However upon reflection, it may have been more on driving style than the car. I experienced mid to high 30's for the first 1-2K.
There are many tips on this site - I've cut and pasted from another post I replied to on this topic. This is by no means definitive, but should get you started:
1) Check your tire pressure. I run mine at 40psi - others run up to the limit of the tire (if you have the Dunlops, it's 51 I think). This has helped anyone who has tried it.
2) Drive like you have no brakes (but always be safe
) - use the regenerative braking to do as much of your speed management as you can. Learn to look ahead at the traffic flow and coast when you can. Accelerate slowly, and take your time when stopping to get the most out of the recharge. 3) Use the econ button, and roll down the windows instead of A/C when practical.
4) Try to keep you speed constant up hills.
5) Keep reading this site - there are lots of great tips.
You'll find that your overall MPG will have as much to do with your driving technique as your car. Because mileage information is plentiful in a Civic, you'll become aware of things that disappeared into the noise on your other cars.
On the Auto Stop, there are some conditions that need to be met. In my 03 HCH, the temp has to be above 41 degrees. The car needs to be warmed up (won't engage until 5 min into a drive). The button has to be pushed (yes, this happens). You have to have traveled at least 10 mph. If it's not auto stopping under those conditions, maybe you should have it checked.
Also, some environmental things:
- Obviously, A/C hurts your FE (you notice it more in this car)
- Rain, headwind, all work against FE (fuel efficiency)
- Temperature can hurt it at the extremes (hot and cold)
Good Luck! Glad you enjoy the car -
Last edited by Tim; 08-15-2005 at 09:10 AM.
#4
08-24-2005, 06:19 AM
Re: 34 MPG??
Hi Brian
I just purchased my HCH about a little over a week ago and have 700 miles on it so far. I have filled up twice at the half tank mark and the first tank manually calculated out to 39, and the second one at 37. I am about the fill up for the third time and it appears I am getting better gas milage as my computer show 37 where before it always showed 34. So like you I am waiting for this magical moment to surge to the 40's or better. I live in Florida so I have to run the a/c which as you have read can make a big difference in the milage game. We will have to just sit back and wait and see what happens as the car breaks in!
I just purchased my HCH about a little over a week ago and have 700 miles on it so far. I have filled up twice at the half tank mark and the first tank manually calculated out to 39, and the second one at 37. I am about the fill up for the third time and it appears I am getting better gas milage as my computer show 37 where before it always showed 34. So like you I am waiting for this magical moment to surge to the 40's or better. I live in Florida so I have to run the a/c which as you have read can make a big difference in the milage game. We will have to just sit back and wait and see what happens as the car breaks in!
#5
08-24-2005, 01:40 PM
Re: 34 MPG??
Welcome to the challenging and fun world of hybrids guys.
If you are willing to change your driving habits a 5-7 mpg increase is not that hard to achieve. My experience is that the break-in helped but not that much. It was the driver who had to be broken-in, not the car. Driving habits greatly affect Fuel Efficient cars.
My car started at 28 mpg off the dealer's lot. My first tank began at 42 mpg but was up to 47 at the end. I attribute this to changed driving habits, not a break in, because I managed a trip with 54+ mpg within the first 200 miles on the car. My current tank is averaging 52ish. My best trip is 58 mpg so far, and my worst is 38 mpg.
After maxing my tires PSI, the early tricks I used were pulse and glide, and watching the mpg bar to avoid overaccelerating. I learned to always coast downhill on the large hills we have here. I avoided using gas only starts (too little gas pedal won't kick in the electric assist), and avoided inefficient overaccellerating also. I rapidly started using the mpg bar as a training wheels guage to let it tell me where to place the accellerator pedal. I "drive with the load" over small highway hills, meaning I keep the gas pedal fixed and slow down on the uphill and speed back up on the other side.
I include here some of the more advanced things I have been learning also:
I gave up the air (I know you can't do this in south Fla), and learned other tricks like anticipating lights and traffic patterns for maximum regenerative braking. If you just barely touch the brake pedal you get almost all regenerative braking. The computer will actually draw more power in charging when it detects your brake pedal is slightly depressed.
The best way to brake to a stop is to stay in one gear and follow it all the way down (if you are in a 5 spd). The reason is that there is a delay from when you downshift to when the computer begins to draw power and recharge the battery. Also, higher gears seems to recover more energy overall as it takes longer to stop and the charging rate seems to have a maximum level that is fully met even by 5th gear, but the charging stops at a higher mph in higher gears (because charging only occurs over a minimum rpm), so which gear to follow down is an important choice each time I brake. I end up using either 3rd or 2nd gear when braking to a full stop, and 4th or 5th when doing speed management on the freeways, we have a lot of hills here so I do this a lot.
I coast a lot too (clutch depressed). People say that taking it out of gear while coasting helps even more, I haven't tried this yet but know enough about cars to know the tranny is still spinning when in gear because the clutch is between the tranny and the engine and thus does not disconnect the tranny from the road.
I use the key to force engine-stops when the engine is cold, I never idle cold at a traffic light because that kills my mpg. One time I coasted downhill (engine on) to the first traffic light from my house and watched the mpg average drop from 80 to 45 before the light turned green.
4th gear has a sweet spot at 30-35 mph where it gets 80mpg on a flat. And 5th gear likes 40-45ish for its maximum. I try to camp in one of those in city driving when I am not coasting (I generally coast unless the battery is low).
I live in the slow lane now, my target speed on the highway is 58ish, so I mostly keep up except for hill climbs and when the traffic is going a lot faster than that.
I live at the top of a hill. I don't even start the engine (except once for about 5 seconds to get brake pressure up) until I get to the bottom of the hill. The hill is big, coming home I hit the hill at 55 mpg, and it is down to 52ish by the time I hit the top. But coasting down the hill with the engine off I can get 120 mpg. :-)
I know how to use the accellerator pedal to always get electric assist when I want it. I can drive in ways that deplete the battery (pulse and glide) and get higher mileage, or ways that help it to charge (stay in gear with steady speeds) with a slight penalty in mpg. I vary strategies when I know I am approaching an area where I either need or don't need the electric assist as much (generally I need it in city driving and hill climbs). The electric assist is more powerful when the battery is near full charge. At lower charge the computer is less willing to give you electric assist (more gas pedal depression needed to kick in the assist), and more willing to go into charge mode, I take advantage of both tendencies as much as I can.
I have heard a lot about lean-burn, but don't know how to do that yet.
Some tricks to maximize mileage with air include keeping the thermostat one click above minimim (in econ mode), auto-stop seems to work better like that, and the compressor seems to turn off more often also, although things warm up pretty quick when stopped with the engine off. Using recirculate during auto-stops prevents things from warming up as fast (2006 HCH owners won't have to worry about this). The sad fact is that air affects mpg much more in fuel efficient cars because air costs about the same in gas even in an FE vehicle. I hear reports of about 5 mpg for us, but don't know for sure. Many claim that over 50 mpg can be achieved on the highway with air on (I assume they are going 65 mph or below).
I have also played games where I drove fast, and got 42 mpg highway with the air on.
A lot of little games like what I described above are possible. It is part of the fun of driving one of these cars. I hope you enjoy yours. :-)
If you are willing to change your driving habits a 5-7 mpg increase is not that hard to achieve. My experience is that the break-in helped but not that much. It was the driver who had to be broken-in, not the car. Driving habits greatly affect Fuel Efficient cars.
My car started at 28 mpg off the dealer's lot. My first tank began at 42 mpg but was up to 47 at the end. I attribute this to changed driving habits, not a break in, because I managed a trip with 54+ mpg within the first 200 miles on the car. My current tank is averaging 52ish. My best trip is 58 mpg so far, and my worst is 38 mpg.
After maxing my tires PSI, the early tricks I used were pulse and glide, and watching the mpg bar to avoid overaccelerating. I learned to always coast downhill on the large hills we have here. I avoided using gas only starts (too little gas pedal won't kick in the electric assist), and avoided inefficient overaccellerating also. I rapidly started using the mpg bar as a training wheels guage to let it tell me where to place the accellerator pedal. I "drive with the load" over small highway hills, meaning I keep the gas pedal fixed and slow down on the uphill and speed back up on the other side.
I include here some of the more advanced things I have been learning also:
I gave up the air (I know you can't do this in south Fla), and learned other tricks like anticipating lights and traffic patterns for maximum regenerative braking. If you just barely touch the brake pedal you get almost all regenerative braking. The computer will actually draw more power in charging when it detects your brake pedal is slightly depressed.
The best way to brake to a stop is to stay in one gear and follow it all the way down (if you are in a 5 spd). The reason is that there is a delay from when you downshift to when the computer begins to draw power and recharge the battery. Also, higher gears seems to recover more energy overall as it takes longer to stop and the charging rate seems to have a maximum level that is fully met even by 5th gear, but the charging stops at a higher mph in higher gears (because charging only occurs over a minimum rpm), so which gear to follow down is an important choice each time I brake. I end up using either 3rd or 2nd gear when braking to a full stop, and 4th or 5th when doing speed management on the freeways, we have a lot of hills here so I do this a lot.
I coast a lot too (clutch depressed). People say that taking it out of gear while coasting helps even more, I haven't tried this yet but know enough about cars to know the tranny is still spinning when in gear because the clutch is between the tranny and the engine and thus does not disconnect the tranny from the road.
I use the key to force engine-stops when the engine is cold, I never idle cold at a traffic light because that kills my mpg. One time I coasted downhill (engine on) to the first traffic light from my house and watched the mpg average drop from 80 to 45 before the light turned green.
4th gear has a sweet spot at 30-35 mph where it gets 80mpg on a flat. And 5th gear likes 40-45ish for its maximum. I try to camp in one of those in city driving when I am not coasting (I generally coast unless the battery is low).
I live in the slow lane now, my target speed on the highway is 58ish, so I mostly keep up except for hill climbs and when the traffic is going a lot faster than that.
I live at the top of a hill. I don't even start the engine (except once for about 5 seconds to get brake pressure up) until I get to the bottom of the hill. The hill is big, coming home I hit the hill at 55 mpg, and it is down to 52ish by the time I hit the top. But coasting down the hill with the engine off I can get 120 mpg. :-)
I know how to use the accellerator pedal to always get electric assist when I want it. I can drive in ways that deplete the battery (pulse and glide) and get higher mileage, or ways that help it to charge (stay in gear with steady speeds) with a slight penalty in mpg. I vary strategies when I know I am approaching an area where I either need or don't need the electric assist as much (generally I need it in city driving and hill climbs). The electric assist is more powerful when the battery is near full charge. At lower charge the computer is less willing to give you electric assist (more gas pedal depression needed to kick in the assist), and more willing to go into charge mode, I take advantage of both tendencies as much as I can.
I have heard a lot about lean-burn, but don't know how to do that yet.
Some tricks to maximize mileage with air include keeping the thermostat one click above minimim (in econ mode), auto-stop seems to work better like that, and the compressor seems to turn off more often also, although things warm up pretty quick when stopped with the engine off. Using recirculate during auto-stops prevents things from warming up as fast (2006 HCH owners won't have to worry about this). The sad fact is that air affects mpg much more in fuel efficient cars because air costs about the same in gas even in an FE vehicle. I hear reports of about 5 mpg for us, but don't know for sure. Many claim that over 50 mpg can be achieved on the highway with air on (I assume they are going 65 mph or below).
I have also played games where I drove fast, and got 42 mpg highway with the air on.
A lot of little games like what I described above are possible. It is part of the fun of driving one of these cars. I hope you enjoy yours. :-)
#6
08-24-2005, 01:50 PM
Pretty Darn Active Enthusiast
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Deep in the heart of Florida
Posts: 351
Re: 34 MPG??
My 1st tank was <40 MPG too, then it increased as I got used to "hybrid driving."
As was mentioned earlier, make sure the "ECON" button is lit, otherwise the auto stop will never work. Also make sure you don't take your foot off the brake (even for a split second) after stopping; that will cause the engine to kick in again. Before stopping, coast as much as possible; your MPG will skyrocket and you'll give the IMA a nice charge. Try to keep a constant RPM (more important than constant speed). I've found that ~2000 RPM is the "sweet spot" at 50-60 MPH; the MPG graph can go as high as 70 on level ground and 80 on a slight downslope.
You don't mention where you're from, but I can assure you the terrain makes a big difference. Climbing even the shallowest hills will have a negative impact, as will using the A/C (hard to avoid here in Florida). While the difference is far less than it used to be, a manual transmission is still a bit more efficient than an automatic.
Hope this helps. Don't get discouraged.
As was mentioned earlier, make sure the "ECON" button is lit, otherwise the auto stop will never work. Also make sure you don't take your foot off the brake (even for a split second) after stopping; that will cause the engine to kick in again. Before stopping, coast as much as possible; your MPG will skyrocket and you'll give the IMA a nice charge. Try to keep a constant RPM (more important than constant speed). I've found that ~2000 RPM is the "sweet spot" at 50-60 MPH; the MPG graph can go as high as 70 on level ground and 80 on a slight downslope.
You don't mention where you're from, but I can assure you the terrain makes a big difference. Climbing even the shallowest hills will have a negative impact, as will using the A/C (hard to avoid here in Florida). While the difference is far less than it used to be, a manual transmission is still a bit more efficient than an automatic.
Hope this helps. Don't get discouraged.
#8
08-25-2005, 07:26 AM
Re: 34 MPG??
I've found that driving style makes a HUGE difference in the fuel economy of this vehicle. I've gotten as low as 38 MPG and as high as 48 MPG out of the same car, on the same terrain.
How to get 38-40: Drive 75-85 MPH, accelerate fast, and blast the AC.
How to get 41-44: Drive 65-70, accelerate modestly, and blast the AC.
How to get 45-48: Drive 55-65, accelerate modestly, and leave the AC off.
Usually I take the middle route, and my car rewards me with a consistance 42 MPG. But if I'm low on gas money, I can get the 48 MPG just by slowing down and turning off the air conditioner. Road rage can kill one's fuel economy!
How to get 38-40: Drive 75-85 MPH, accelerate fast, and blast the AC.
How to get 41-44: Drive 65-70, accelerate modestly, and blast the AC.
How to get 45-48: Drive 55-65, accelerate modestly, and leave the AC off.
Usually I take the middle route, and my car rewards me with a consistance 42 MPG. But if I'm low on gas money, I can get the 48 MPG just by slowing down and turning off the air conditioner. Road rage can kill one's fuel economy!
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