Hi Livvie:

___We have found common ground

___When I ran out of vacuum assist in the Insight, she was definitely what I would call in a "very slow" coast and my hands were on the emergency. If I found myself at 30 + without assist in traffic, I would consider a re-start and shutdown to rebuild vacuum but it would really be dependant on the surrounding traffic as in “if there was any”?

PS: I still owe you and Tbaleno a test segment between FAS and a neutral - idle - coast. I will get to it sooner or later …

___Hot_Gerogia_2004, I remember many of those threads over at Edmunds and they got so out of control so fast I truly believe the majority here push tanks so you have a captive but still questioning audience. The questioning of both the Pro’s and the Con’s are just as important but over there, you had just about any goof ball that could type on a computer, let alone those that could give a **** about why we all push tanks in hybrids and non-hybrids in the first place … I am exaggerating but this thread is relatively balanced vs. just about any thread over at Edmunds imho. I am just as guilty on the other side of those arguments in some cases so I can definitely sympathize with you in regards to the attacks. I was and still am hesitant to bring up some of our more “advanced” techniques up over at DriveAccord.net as well but Psyshack jumps in with both feet and takes the reigns there when needed as of late

___Lakedude, that was a very important post. I think I will find the limits of my Accord’s vacuum assist on my next commute as it is definitely a consideration and knowledge as to when it runs out could be a life saver.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

Ok check this out:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/power-brake2.htm

Look at the recharge operation when the red comes back in. This confirms my observations. Pumping the brakes is gonna deplete the vacuum reserve. Steady pressure will make the vacuum last longer.

But does the abs pumping count as pumping? Or does it use some other system?

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/anti-lock-brake1.htm

See Pump.

I still don't follow. It sounds like the pump creates the vacum and doesn't take it from the master cylinder.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

I'm no expert having just learned this stuff today.

What I get out of it is that the big canister provides power assist so long as there is vacuum. If vacuum runs out you must provide the power with your foot and leverage like a non power system.

The ABS is a completely seperate system that is powered electrically which has a hydraulic pump that has nothing to due with the vacuum canister. It is the ABS that might let pressure off of a wheel so it is the ABS that puts the pressure back once the wheel is no longer locked up. It does this independant of your foot and the vacuum can.

I'm thinking you will be restarting your car after an ABS incident anyway.

Lakedude, as far as I am aware ABS does not work once the motor is off. Am I missing something here?

Yes you still are. As I've mentioned several times already ABS does work during a FAS. At least it did the one time I had to stop for tree in the road.

So then you could find yourself in a situation where you have no vacuum assist but you manage to somehow press the brake pedal to the point that a lockup would occur, and the ABS system kicks in? That's pretty **** funny.