Civic hybrid 06 driving technic summary thread

[ElanC]

Originally Posted by slajeune

Hi ElanC,

thanks for the encouragement. But, seeing as some thought that most of it was pure speculation at best and at worst bad advice, I didn't see myself continuing to update the thread. I did put a lot of effort in summarizing all of what is currently know on the 2006 civic hybrid.

I'm all for sharing what is currently known about the car. I just got one and I am myself leaning new stuff every day.

However, being told by a senior member and a hypermiler that my post was basically useless, I didn't see why I should continue updating it.

Sorry, I don't want to sound negative, but, I tried to summarize in one thread ALL of what I READ in the boards. Most of the information was taken from NASAngineer's threads which show a lot of study in them.

Maybe someone else would like to continue the thread.

Thank you,
Stephane.

Stephane,

A lot of what's written here is personal opinion and speculation of various kinds. I'm glad that Xcel responded with an invitation for you to repost. I, for one, would appreciate if you did because I never got a chance to read your original message. I only saw some very appreciative responses from others.

One nice thing about internet forums is that nobody can touch you. They can try to intimidate or put you down, but they're only as powerful as you let them be. Don't let anybody intimidate you. We're all equal here, unless we violate some posting rules and have our post removed by an official moderator or, god forbid, have our posting privileges removed for blatantly violating the rules.

Coming from a different kind of forum where I've gained some respect, it amazes me how easily people are intimidated by any criticism from a "senior" member, whether intended or not. They act as if others have some real authority over them, when in fact everyone is pretty much untouchable.

The HCH is a wonderful car. It provides so much real time information that it encourages FE obssession. To some people it has apparently become the equivalent of a video game. The ability to post your scores (your mileage) on the Greenhybrid database turns it into a real competition. Oh what fun!, if you're into this kind of thing. Personally I have no interest in getting into that kind of competition. I know that I won't get into it once I get my HCH, if for no other reason that it will primarily be my wife's commute car. Still, I have a keen interest in many things discussed here, because I already know more about the HCH than I've ever known about another car. There's a lot of useful information here. The forum will be most useful, IMHO, if it continues to represent a variety of perspectives - some hypermilers, some regular drivers, and some who can't keep themselves from putting the pedal to the metal. It'll be best if all types co-exist without one chasing the others off the forum.

[sactoroy]

Stephane,

My first post is to thank you for your post and summarizing information from various threads. Although our HCH II is my wife's car, I drive it when I go to the Bay Area for client matters. I found most of the techniques you specified in various threads and shared them with my wife. In short, they work! I may not get 70, 80 or 90 mpg but we are getting better mpg than when we first got the car. In fact, I think our lmpg is currently a little over 41 not counting the first fifty miles which was lost when we reset our trip odometer. I got almost 50 mpg on my last trip to the Bay Area (260 miles RT). I think the only other thing I've considered doing is increasing the PSI in the tires otherwise, we're pretty happy with the results we are getting. I think your post can only help, especially with newbies like us. Thanks again.

Roy

[dshelman]

Pulled

[slajeune]

Hi NASAgineer,

Originally Posted by NASAgineer

In non-freeway situations, it's a completely different story. My technique here is to look ahead to the next 'waypoint', which is usually the next stop light/sign, a sharp curve, stopped traffic, or even the crest of the next hill. I then work back from there to a point where I think I can reach the waypoint by coasting, possibly with some EV assist help. That point is usually about half-way between my current position and the waypoint, but not always (hills can move that point significantly). I then 'pulse' to the 'coasting start point' and coast the rest of the way. The intensity of the pulse depends on the distance to the coast point. Using this method I have been able to get 55-65 mpg, again depending mostly on terrain. I expect that when it warms up, I'll do even better. Unfortunatley for me, most of my driving is on the freeway, so I don't get to practice it much.

This is really interesting and something that I can try. You see, my daily commute is 100% city (i.e. non-freeway)! When 'pulsing', do you use any assist or not? What rate of acceleration for the pulse have you tried (if you remember the instantaneous fuel consumption display that would be great).

Thanks!
Stephane.

[Tulip]

I live in hope that someone, anyone, will tell me what to do with my rev counter Polite suggestions only please

[dshelman]

Pulled

[Tulip]

Many thanks
Tulip

[xcel]

Hi All:

___Well, lets start by the threads intentions. Driving Technique Summary. This isn’t about starting it up, checking your mirrors, engaging R, pulling into the street after looking both ways, stopping, placing the car in D, and stepping on the Accelerator. etc., it is about maximizing FE in an HCH-II. If it were anything else, you wouldn’t see details on P&G’s, EV/Mode Glides, or taking down the A/C compressor.

___With that out of the way, lets get going.

___Tulip, the only item I use the Tach is for keeping RPM’s below 2,000 RPM under almost all circumstances. If you are using more ICE for faster accelerations, you are not achieving max FE out of the hole or getting to steady state possibly. Use the tach to minimize RPM’s and you are set in every Hybrid and non-hybrid I have ever driven but my experience is only as good as my personal past performance in whatever I have driven. ElanC, that was my shot across your bow.

___BlueCivicHybrid, running your tank low will not harm your Fuel pump in the least. You will get better calculated accuracy on a tank basis if you do run your HCH-II down to a few miles below the low fuel light. Do not worry about 1,000 mile tanks although we will see those soon enough. That 06 HCH-II’s PZEV tank isn’t really large enough to nail the 1,000 milers for all but the best HCH-II pilot pulling out all the stops … Just worry about maximizing your HCH-II’s FE no matter where and when it’s driven. You have shown us some excellent segments to date and I for one have very high hopes for you given your age.

___NASAngineer, Hot_Georgia_2004 has hills similar to the outskirts of San Francisco in and around Atlanta. Although I did not believe it in the past, hills do help ones FE when pushing tanks. The Pittsburgh event skirting the Ohio River showed me first hand and right between the eyes that hilly terrain can be used with greater advantage then the flatlands with any number of techniques. It sounds like you are holding the technique(s) just fine but you cannot expect high FE at 70 miles per hour unfortunately. Here is a tip for both you and Bluecivichybrid. When you are in that lower speed glide at or just below the limits, get your (2) right tires on the white line! Do not play games with this. You don’t own the road just as nobody else does either but if you are hanging in the far right on the white line, those behind you will perceive you are traveling slower then them and move out to pass far sooner without crawling up your tailpipe or worse yet, causing a traffic tie up or accident. This is a great technique vs. sitting in the middle of the far right lane. I mean it! Move over to the far right side of the far right lane as you are both experimenting with the slower speed portions of your glides. I would also like to hear that you are looking ahead 2 + stop signs, lights, or intersections out

___Both of you might consider some of the following: The Horror, the absolute horror …

___As for cruise, it may work for some but it will not make the HCH-II a valedictorian for all but the absolute best hypermilers. I have always killed cruise with ANY rising or falling roadway. If the roads you are traveling are that flat, you have a lot of options other then cruise to rely on.

___P&G at speeds of 75 miles per hour? You are fast approaching the aero limits of the P&G technique. The Glide is the key and a 75 to 60 miles per hour decel is to fast for the technique to do much good imho. In a LS P&G, you can easily double and even triple EPA highway in just about anything. In a HS (45 – 60 to 65 miles per hour) P&G, you are talking about 10 - 40% increase depending on how you can terrain follow using DWL and D-FAS’/EV-Glide if available. 60 to 75 miles per hour? You may not be gaining much if anything at all??? These 50 mpg tanks just don’t show anything from a car rated for 50 mpg’s. It doesn’t matter that it is colder or your traffic conditions are not conducive to high FE. Hitting the EPA isn’t anything more then just driving like most other conservative drivers do. The rest do not give a **** about their FE other then when they actually see how much it costs them at the pump

___Let us get into what you are going to have to do to bring your HCH-II up to higher speeds without your FE getting killed on the way. Your HCH-II has to be facing out of your drive or parking spot from dead cold. I do not care if you have to pull it in the night before and turn it around by pushing it Fred Flintstone style, you must get that nose facing out and ready for the next days ordeal. If you have to use reverse at any time, you are not paying close enough attention to the parking lots or spots available for you to park. Again, if that ICE is running, you had better consider moving forward or all you are doing is wasting gas. A cold ICE means extremely rich mixtures, Open Loop ops, backed off timing, and high RPM’s. All 4 are a recipe for a FE DISASTER at best! Ok, you know about Face Out. If you have a down slope on your drive or roadway, why is your car idling to pull you out into your street? Just boot it up (not started) and coast into the street. You did pay attention that all was clear before you booted up and began moving, right? You start your car and you are instantly moving forward. No ifs, ands, or buts. If something gets in your way, you shut the car down. Even if you think something will be in the way by the time you get there, you shut it down now and if the obstacle clears, good. If it doesn’t, you saved fuel on your way to a warmed up ICE highway cruise. Now you are in the street heading towards the first stop sign. Let that backed off advance, open looped ops, high RPM, and rich mixture accelerate your HCH-II all on its own. You should not have to touch the pedal much at all. If you are going to be burning fuel like there is an ocean of it, you may as well be getting some distance from it. About that first stop sign down the block … You shut the car off and coast into it. That high revving, abysmal FE receiving ICE is not doing anything but warming up the CAT’s and coolant on your dime. Screw that. Shut the thing down and FAS into that stop sign down the block. Unless its 0 degrees F and you just started her up, you have to consider a FAS anytime you are running around town or around your subdivision if she is not warmed up. So you are sitting at that first stop sign and all looks clear in both directions … Restart and perform the same into the next light, sign, obstacle, or whatever. You should now be close to LS P&G territory although your hybrid’s automatic tools may or may not work just yet. Time for our first forced LS P&G via FAS when we hit the first non-suburban arterial street. Take her up to 30 miles per hour and FAS back down to 20 miles per hour. From that 20 miles per hour, pulse her back up to 35 miles per hour. Glide in a FAS back down to 25 miles per hour. The next pulse takes you up to 40 - 45 miles per hour and you FAS again back down to 30 miles per hour. We should by now see the temp gauge just beginning to pull off the bottom. We need about another mile or so of either LS P&G using FAS’ or a slow but steady cruise using DWL until she is fully warmed up. At least she is not running open loop, not running with a backed off advance, her idle has slowed somewhat although she still may be running a little rich. Just a few more blocks and you are ready for highway travel … This is just one way to get that cold ICE up to temp without getting killed. I hope you guys can find even more in your own daily grinds.

___If anyone thinks this is crazy then look at a reset Trip A or B from your driveway through the first mile of travel. If some consider low to mid 20’s and 30’s from a $24,000 hybrid good FE, they are the ones that are crazy. Remember there is this guy driving a Ford Ranger P/U loaded with 300 - 400 #’s of landscape garbage that is kicking your @$$ over that first mile or two in 0 – 20 degree temps and he paid < $10K for his truck brand new! Imagine that, some guy in a landscape truck is receiving better FE than a brand new 06 HCH-II that you just spent a healthy $24,000 + for! I hope many of you see my point now. This mid 20’s and 30’s crap during warm up is to ugly for words and you simply have to get yourself up and beyond that kind of FE even when starting out from dead cold … I know some have roadways, local commutes, whatever that do not allow this kind of activity. If you do not when you normally leave for work, consider leaving sooner, taking a different way out of your subdivision, or heaven forbid drive through another subdivision before entering the arterial or highway. If you live in the country, you have no traffic. Forcing a P&G using FAS’ until she is warmed up is a great alternative to horrid FE in that first mile or two and then you can begin using all the HCH-II’s tools as she comes equipped.

___And about that setup again … No OEM Moly loaded goo in the HCH-II after 3 - 5,000 miles. That stuff needs to be replaced with 0W-20 Mobil1. If anyone has the details on the Honda 0W-20, feel free to post it but right now, Mobil1 0W-20 works and it works great! Tire pressures … If you wanted a more comfortable rider, you might have considered a non-hybrid Camry. Great highway ride but its FE stinks. Once you get used to high pressures, you will wonder why you were running on sand all these years. Even simple turn in on 32 # tires drives me nuts as I am wallowing from corner to corner wondering when the beads are going to let loose

Originally Posted by philmcneal

Ya for straight line hwy I think having CC on is just more efficient and worth the hardly extra effort P&G forces you to be in.

___LS and HS P&G’s are an effort and you do not have to use them. You don’t have to use any types of drafts, DWL, or DWB either. If you want truly strive to achieve less then what the EPA says your automobile is worth, you do not have to put any effort into your driving technique at all! Just drive like most others with one foot on the gas and one on the brake and using them almost simultaneously

Originally Posted by dshelman

I was also dismayed by the response and made much more hesitant to post any impressions I have had regarding my new HCH-II. I'm a real-world driver, and look for real-world tips. Hypermiling is kinda fun, but I simply don't have the attention span to do it consistently. I gave up riding Harleys because of my ADD, for Christ's sake!

___Dshelman, because it appears that you have little experience, I am sorry to burst your bubble. If you are a real world driver, your FE will speak for itself? If you are looking for more, this is just one of many threads here at GH you want to read, comprehend, practice, and use AFTER THE FACTS on the HCH-II have been disseminated. Hypermiling is simply beating the EPA combined. Anyone can do that in just about anything without paying any attention whatsoever. If you want to receive what your HCH-II is really worth in the real world given the tools you have at your fingertips, use them! Your tank notes are showing a budding interest but remember, there is this guy driving a PZEV Accord at speeds of 45 - 75 miles per hour other then while sitting going nowhere in traffic jams in Chicago that is doing better. He simply places a few more seconds of effort into every mile is all and cannot stand to see the HCH-II driven into mediocrity given it is the new car highlight of the year so far.

___Now please let me see some stuff from the HCH-II pilots! There are valedictorian qaul’ed hypermilers in Prius II’s, FEH’s, AH’s and HCH-I’s right off the lot (although most did have warmer temperatures) but I do not see the HCH-II owners being represented in that short list just yet. The various techniques are posted. Now lets start using them and see how they work!

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

[Archslater]

Originally Posted by xcel

___Now please let me see some stuff from the HCH-II pilots! There are valedictorian qaul’ed hypermilers in Prius II’s, FEH’s, AH’s and HCH-I’s right off the lot (although most did have warmer temperatures) but I do not see the HCH-II owners being represented in that short list just yet. The various techniques are posted. Now lets start using them and see how they work!

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

While I am by no means a hypermiler, please keep in mind that many of us live in northern climates, and since the HCH II has only been available for a few months, much of our driving has been in nasty weather. I look forward to posting good numbers in the spring.

[xcel]

Hi Archslater:

___You may as well live in the heart of Dixie as compared to my locale You are stuck w/ E10 as well, right

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes