HCH Cancelled!
#1
12-11-2005, 05:10 AM
HCH Cancelled!
So a funny thing happened on the way home from work Friday .... 
I was going over to the mall (mistake) to the Apple store to start looking for a new ipod for the 06HCH because I'd pre-ordered it with the Honda Music Link. The Honda dealer is about 3 blocks away from the mall, so I figured since I was in the neighborhood, I'll drop in and say "Hi" (it's one of those kind of dealers where you can do that, and not have to do it with one hand over your wallet) and ask if the car was on the water yet from Japan.
My sales guy was delivering another car, so we were talking to the finance guy who we did the 03 HCH with... he said it's not on the water yet (look at the second week in Jan.) but as long as I'm there... take a look at THIS!.... and pointed me at the last 2005 HAH on the lot that they were doing the proverbial Fire Sale pricing on to get it off the lot (it would appear that the HAH was not a huge hit (there's some marketing problems with that car), AND this one was (urgh) Taffeta White.
If you take this one instead we'll kick off $5k, AND pay off the note on your Bimmer (the Gen Manager used to run the company's local BMW store, so he knew the market pricing pretty well. He's the only guy I know who works in a Honda store and has his walls covered with pictures of his BMWs - he did the appriasal himself.
)
Ah, the thoughts of sugarplums dancing through my head at the idea but I *definitely* had to sleep on it (and run home and read the HAH section on here!!!) then come back and do a side-by-side drive of the two cars. To cut to the chase, I now have the 05 Accord Hybrid sitting outside, the BMW is bye-bye, and somebody else will be happy with my yet-to-arrive 06 Galaxy Gray Civic.
So what was the difference??
The money was a big part (even considering that the 05 has the "old" Honda warranty of 3/36.) This company does a "Tires for Life" program (replace the tires for as long as you own the car) that's going away after the first of the year, and I found ONE little driving thing that didn't work with the new Civic.
The "Marketing Problem" I spoke of above is that Honda promoted the HAH as a "Fast" car (oh BOY is it fast! compared favorably with my BMW on off-the-block acceleration. And it's one of those big cars that feels like you're doing 45 when you're really going 70 - I found I had to watch the speed a LOT more in that car than in the BMW.) The FE isn't MASSIVE compared to the HCH, but mid-30s to 40 for a big car full of leather and wood ain't nothing to sneeze at. I don't think a lot of people want a fast car that looks just like the car that grandma drives (especially a WHITE one
) and they would have done a better job comparing the FE to a Buick Lucerne or a mid-range Lexus that guzzles a LOT more gas.
The car has gizmos up the wazoo (inlcuding actual working XM radio) and the auto-stop is much more "agressive" than the one in the Civic. It'll re-stop while you're doing a stoplight creep. Take your foot off the brake, it starts, brake again, it stops again. I did find this a little annoying though in heavy stop 'n go mall traffic.
It was easy to kick in the engine thing that drops you down from 6 to 3 cyl for additional FE, and I noticed no difference in the drive or the noise level in the car when it's in that "Eco" mode.
The car has a "regular" transmission (plus a quasi- sport mode) so you get real "clunks" between gears and it feels a little more like it knows what it's doing in Reverse (anybody else have to really PUSH the accelerator to get a HCH going when backing out of a parking space?) No spare tire, though. That's why Man invented AAA
So "Money" was probably my first winning point: with the huge discount and a payout on my old car without being upside-down on that (I'm trading about 15 months into the BMWUSA loan) after all the dice were thrown, choosing the HAH was about $2000 more than the contract on the HCH with the accessories, etc. Unfortunately (for now) the Music Link is a Civic-Only option, and there's no "easy" way to connect an ipod to the Accord. Like the spare tire and the white paint, I'll get over that I'm sure And since I'm the Total web nerd, with Honda financing (they beat the pre-approved deal I walked in the door with) that stuff can all be managed online at the Honda website (I'm SUCH a loser!)
I drove the 06 HCH after that one (mostly to test out the road noise in the HCH and to compare the radio systems between the two - took along a pretty thundering Test CD to play.) I really REALLY love that little car! Except for one Design Thing inside: I'm 6'7" tall, and even with all that (great!) headroom in the car, the emergency brake handle is in JUST the wrong place, so that while driving, my right kneecap banged against the handle the whole time. It would definitely NOT be a long-trip car for a person as tall as me.
I really like the "Airy" feel that the new body has with so much more glass in front and to the sides of you (at first I thought the side window design was a little too "Space 1999") I was a little wary of the dash display with the tach on the 06 where the speedo is on the 03, but it's perfectly designed so that you really don't "see" that part of the dash - the eye is drawn in a more natural way to the digital speedo up top. (I notice that there's a very subtle lighting difference between the "Top" display and the "dash" display so your eyes are drawn correctly.But I realized there's no cheating in that car as I was test driving it on I-40 and looked up to see a big blue "78" right in front of me. It's a peppy little car!
You can't do ALL the Touch 'n Glide tricks in the HAH because of the different motor management, but I found that it's much easier to get up to highway speed and then hold it there. By using the techniques I learned from living in the HCH, I managed to pop the mileage right up to pushing 30, right off the lot
More car, lower payments, about 30-40% better FE than the BMW (and it uses regular gas,) my Insurance agent has to lay off staff... it was a good combination. And I *still* have a car I can throw all the big luggage in when going to the airport. So I now officially join the ranks of being a TWO Hybrid Family!
I'll miss the ipod.
I was going over to the mall (mistake) to the Apple store to start looking for a new ipod for the 06HCH because I'd pre-ordered it with the Honda Music Link. The Honda dealer is about 3 blocks away from the mall, so I figured since I was in the neighborhood, I'll drop in and say "Hi" (it's one of those kind of dealers where you can do that, and not have to do it with one hand over your wallet) and ask if the car was on the water yet from Japan.
My sales guy was delivering another car, so we were talking to the finance guy who we did the 03 HCH with... he said it's not on the water yet (look at the second week in Jan.) but as long as I'm there... take a look at THIS!.... and pointed me at the last 2005 HAH on the lot that they were doing the proverbial Fire Sale pricing on to get it off the lot (it would appear that the HAH was not a huge hit (there's some marketing problems with that car), AND this one was (urgh) Taffeta White.
If you take this one instead we'll kick off $5k, AND pay off the note on your Bimmer (the Gen Manager used to run the company's local BMW store, so he knew the market pricing pretty well. He's the only guy I know who works in a Honda store and has his walls covered with pictures of his BMWs - he did the appriasal himself.
)Ah, the thoughts of sugarplums dancing through my head at the idea but I *definitely* had to sleep on it (and run home and read the HAH section on here!!!) then come back and do a side-by-side drive of the two cars. To cut to the chase, I now have the 05 Accord Hybrid sitting outside, the BMW is bye-bye, and somebody else will be happy with my yet-to-arrive 06 Galaxy Gray Civic.
So what was the difference??
The money was a big part (even considering that the 05 has the "old" Honda warranty of 3/36.) This company does a "Tires for Life" program (replace the tires for as long as you own the car) that's going away after the first of the year, and I found ONE little driving thing that didn't work with the new Civic.
The "Marketing Problem" I spoke of above is that Honda promoted the HAH as a "Fast" car (oh BOY is it fast! compared favorably with my BMW on off-the-block acceleration. And it's one of those big cars that feels like you're doing 45 when you're really going 70 - I found I had to watch the speed a LOT more in that car than in the BMW.) The FE isn't MASSIVE compared to the HCH, but mid-30s to 40 for a big car full of leather and wood ain't nothing to sneeze at. I don't think a lot of people want a fast car that looks just like the car that grandma drives (especially a WHITE one
) and they would have done a better job comparing the FE to a Buick Lucerne or a mid-range Lexus that guzzles a LOT more gas.The car has gizmos up the wazoo (inlcuding actual working XM radio) and the auto-stop is much more "agressive" than the one in the Civic. It'll re-stop while you're doing a stoplight creep. Take your foot off the brake, it starts, brake again, it stops again. I did find this a little annoying though in heavy stop 'n go mall traffic.
It was easy to kick in the engine thing that drops you down from 6 to 3 cyl for additional FE, and I noticed no difference in the drive or the noise level in the car when it's in that "Eco" mode.
The car has a "regular" transmission (plus a quasi- sport mode) so you get real "clunks" between gears and it feels a little more like it knows what it's doing in Reverse (anybody else have to really PUSH the accelerator to get a HCH going when backing out of a parking space?) No spare tire, though. That's why Man invented AAA
So "Money" was probably my first winning point: with the huge discount and a payout on my old car without being upside-down on that (I'm trading about 15 months into the BMWUSA loan) after all the dice were thrown, choosing the HAH was about $2000 more than the contract on the HCH with the accessories, etc. Unfortunately (for now) the Music Link is a Civic-Only option, and there's no "easy" way to connect an ipod to the Accord. Like the spare tire and the white paint, I'll get over that I'm sure
And since I'm the Total web nerd, with Honda financing (they beat the pre-approved deal I walked in the door with) that stuff can all be managed online at the Honda website (I'm SUCH a loser!)I drove the 06 HCH after that one (mostly to test out the road noise in the HCH and to compare the radio systems between the two - took along a pretty thundering Test CD to play.) I really REALLY love that little car! Except for one Design Thing inside: I'm 6'7" tall, and even with all that (great!) headroom in the car, the emergency brake handle is in JUST the wrong place, so that while driving, my right kneecap banged against the handle the whole time. It would definitely NOT be a long-trip car for a person as tall as me.
I really like the "Airy" feel that the new body has with so much more glass in front and to the sides of you (at first I thought the side window design was a little too "Space 1999") I was a little wary of the dash display with the tach on the 06 where the speedo is on the 03, but it's perfectly designed so that you really don't "see" that part of the dash - the eye is drawn in a more natural way to the digital speedo up top. (I notice that there's a very subtle lighting difference between the "Top" display and the "dash" display so your eyes are drawn correctly.But I realized there's no cheating in that car as I was test driving it on I-40 and looked up to see a big blue "78" right in front of me. It's a peppy little car!
You can't do ALL the Touch 'n Glide tricks in the HAH because of the different motor management, but I found that it's much easier to get up to highway speed and then hold it there. By using the techniques I learned from living in the HCH, I managed to pop the mileage right up to pushing 30, right off the lot
More car, lower payments, about 30-40% better FE than the BMW (and it uses regular gas,) my Insurance agent has to lay off staff... it was a good combination. And I *still* have a car I can throw all the big luggage in when going to the airport. So I now officially join the ranks of being a TWO Hybrid Family!
I'll miss the ipod.
#2
12-11-2005, 05:57 AM
Re: HCH Cancelled!
Originally Posted by nimbus2k
The Honda dealer is about 3 blocks away from the mall, so I figured since I was in the neighborhood, I'll drop in and say "Hi" (it's one of those kind of dealers where you can do that, and not have to do it with one hand over your wallet)
.
.
#3
12-11-2005, 07:35 AM
Re: HCH Cancelled!
It was a tough call - MORE tough after I drove the Civic and (except for the "Removing My Kneecap" thing) LOVED the car.
After driving the 03 and now the 06 I see there's a lot of improvement in the road noise and ride comfort in the HCH. It's a lot quieter car and feels a lot more roomy (I'm not sure how much of that is the illusion of roominess with the gigantic side windows and windshield.)
The good news is that the two cars (HCH and HAH) have bascially the same-sounding radio (ah... priorities!)
I actually like the "grip" of the Civic seats a little better than the Accord - they really hug my back and make me sit in a more comfortable position. We'll see how the HAH does on a long trip when we start the holiday orgy of driving on the highways. I took the HCH on a long driving trip from NC to Ohio and it was a pleasurable drive. The BMW would start throwing out my back in about 2 hours.
I didn't do a ton of in-city driving in the HCH test, but I hope that Honda steps up the auto-stop to match that on the HAH. It seemed to have kicked in a lot earlier and did its thing more frequently, and was not fazed by creeping forward in stoplight traffic. That would probably make you crazy if you did ALL your driving on busy city streets, but it was cool to have the auto-stop kick in again, after I inched forward and stopped again.
After driving the 03 and now the 06 I see there's a lot of improvement in the road noise and ride comfort in the HCH. It's a lot quieter car and feels a lot more roomy (I'm not sure how much of that is the illusion of roominess with the gigantic side windows and windshield.)
The good news is that the two cars (HCH and HAH) have bascially the same-sounding radio (ah... priorities!)
I actually like the "grip" of the Civic seats a little better than the Accord - they really hug my back and make me sit in a more comfortable position. We'll see how the HAH does on a long trip when we start the holiday orgy of driving on the highways. I took the HCH on a long driving trip from NC to Ohio and it was a pleasurable drive. The BMW would start throwing out my back in about 2 hours.
I didn't do a ton of in-city driving in the HCH test, but I hope that Honda steps up the auto-stop to match that on the HAH. It seemed to have kicked in a lot earlier and did its thing more frequently, and was not fazed by creeping forward in stoplight traffic. That would probably make you crazy if you did ALL your driving on busy city streets, but it was cool to have the auto-stop kick in again, after I inched forward and stopped again.
#4
12-11-2005, 08:57 AM
Re: HCH Cancelled!
Hey John; I just did one Lightbulb for you on your New HAH Purchase and here is the Second. I think you will really enjoy the HAH I have test driven several of them and like you say they are (FAST). I did notice just like you that the Auto-Stop kicks in and out all the time and in some cases (Very-Heavy-Traffic) it (Sorry) gets kinda old. The good thing is though that it does kick right in even when just inching forward a little at a time. The car itself is really cool and I am 6'1" unlike yourself at 6'7" so the Knee Thing
will not be a problem for me in the 2006 HCH come Jan.Well; Congrats.
and I'm sure we will be hearing from you on the HAH Threads. Regards;
Terry
#5
12-11-2005, 09:30 AM
Re: HCH Cancelled!
...this has got to be about the 1st time someone picked up an Accord over a Civic on price points!!
Welcome to the club...now if just Honda would figure out how to market this car to middle America (well, once they put in a 4cyl). Not the treehuggers, not the speed guys, but Joe Dad who wants to have a nice car to drive...and save a little gas to boot.
Be glad you don't do much city driving- cuz this puppy will suck gas like any other V6 since low speeds and stop/starts keep it from hanging out in eco mode.
And remember- no FASing this car!!! At least not unless you know 100% that you will come to a stop, or at least 1st gear speed. Otherwise 4th and 5th get locked out on you, and you have to stop and restart to get them back. The compensation is that it coasts in neutral forever.
5th kicks in at 43, lockup at 48. Get up to 5th relatively quickly (~with traffic, IMO), let up on the pedal and get the eco light on- your instant FE will pop to 45+ then.
Your breakin occurs @ 1200-1500miles, and another @ 3K.
Have fun!
Welcome to the club...now if just Honda would figure out how to market this car to middle America (well, once they put in a 4cyl). Not the treehuggers, not the speed guys, but Joe Dad who wants to have a nice car to drive...and save a little gas to boot.
Be glad you don't do much city driving- cuz this puppy will suck gas like any other V6 since low speeds and stop/starts keep it from hanging out in eco mode.
And remember- no FASing this car!!! At least not unless you know 100% that you will come to a stop, or at least 1st gear speed. Otherwise 4th and 5th get locked out on you, and you have to stop and restart to get them back. The compensation is that it coasts in neutral forever.
5th kicks in at 43, lockup at 48. Get up to 5th relatively quickly (~with traffic, IMO), let up on the pedal and get the eco light on- your instant FE will pop to 45+ then.
Your breakin occurs @ 1200-1500miles, and another @ 3K.
Have fun!
#6
12-11-2005, 10:02 AM
Re: HCH Cancelled!
[QUOTE=gonavy Joe Dad who wants to have a nice car to drive...and save a little gas to boot. [/QUOTE]
(Loking in Mirror) Yea...that's me!
This is the first time I've seen this kind of FE in a car that size since my old days with the (Pre-turbo) Mercedes Diesel (it hit around 35-40 ... once you got it rolling.)
The only difference is I no longer have a door locking system that's (leaky) pneumatic tubes, and I don't have to turn the radio up to volume 10 to be heard over the sound of the engine.
(Loking in Mirror) Yea...that's me!
This is the first time I've seen this kind of FE in a car that size since my old days with the (Pre-turbo) Mercedes Diesel (it hit around 35-40 ... once you got it rolling.)
The only difference is I no longer have a door locking system that's (leaky) pneumatic tubes, and I don't have to turn the radio up to volume 10 to be heard over the sound of the engine.
#7
12-11-2005, 10:40 AM
Re: HCH Cancelled!
Good choice there nimbus...congratulations on a smart move. You're going to love it!! The white paint will grow on you. Amazingly, it shows very little dirt and it makes the interior noticably cooler in summer. The silky smooth 6 cyl ICE, the double wishbone suspension and the interior creature comforts make this car a dream to drive. Oh, and since your car is now a wolf in sheep's clothing, you will find that it's fun to play with the BMW "racers" between traffic lights just to see the puzzled looks on their faces!!
#9
12-11-2005, 12:17 PM
Re: HCH Cancelled!
Originally Posted by gonavy
k...time to shift this to the HAH forum and return the HCH guys to their regularly scheduled programming...
#10
12-11-2005, 01:01 PM
Re: HCH Cancelled!
Originally Posted by gonavy
Be glad you don't do much city driving- cuz this puppy will suck gas like any other V6 since low speeds and stop/starts keep it from hanging out in eco mode.
