What did the Super MID have that we don't have in the civic? I was thinking it was used because you couldn't read mpg over 99.9.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

Well, the SuperMID was most necessary because the Prius instrument would not go above 99.9 mpg, but the SuperMID also kept track of % of time the ICE was on, and it allowed us to meaure miles and watch mpg (km/l to the hundredth place) in real time for each driver and be reset, without resetting the car's trip meters, it also measured mpg in the aggregate and for the most recent km, and mpg when the engine was on, and trip duration in time (per driver and aggregate), and km per driver and in aggregate, km/h, and fuel consumed in litres per driver and in aggregate. We could make do without it, but we would have more data if we had it. Some of that data would be useful in real time to decide which drivers and techniques are working better on the selected course.

Without the SuperMID, I think we would have to log the odometer mileage at the start of the marathon, fill the tank and reset "Trip B" to give us the mileage and mpg for the trip, and then log the Trip B data and reset it for each driver. We would then not have an aggregate on display (unless we reset Trip A and used it for this purpose, and wiped out the car owners lmpg display), but could calculate by hand the aggregate display as we go and at the end, and then use the odometer change or the aggregate of each driver's Trip B readings to determine miles travelled, and use the gas pump to tell us how much fuel was actually used.

Also, Dan's testing found the SuperMID to be more accurate than the car's display readouts. Actually, he found that the SuperMID was dead-on accurate where the display is notoriously 1-2 mpg above real life. So in real time we had accurate data and more precise data to guage our performance.

I agree that an unmodified HCH should be used. As for the CVT vs MT issue, I'm biased toward MT because I know when I'm in the 5th gear ratio, that's that... no automatic ratio changing going on. But then, I really don't have any experience with the CVT beyond a 10-minute test drive.

We need all the hypermilers who were in the last marathon to get together (chat?) and come up with a written course requirement that everyone can agree on.
Here in Central - North Ga may be a perfect challenge.....or oppossite of what is required.
If anyone downloaded the movie I made it represents the overall area terrain.

Typically lots of hills with various lengths and grades and placed end to end in a staircase manner. Not very many flat, level areas that are more than a mile or so.
Obviously both a curse of a challenge and a saving blessing at times.

Another course requirement is to consider possible causes of heavy traffic or jams.
Since an overly developed area can clog up pretty fast (Schools etc) one diver might get caught in a unique challeng the others didn't have.

Once the requirements are posted I'd be glad to scout for routes, and I'm sure Stevo would do the same.

Lodging shouldn't be any problem at all, all the way from the most lavish you can imagine http://www.chateauelanatlanta.com/ to the more budget consious.

I'd love to chat with you all about this but my available time is limited. Can we plan a chat session for sometime this weekend?

If you all choose this area for a marathon we'd surely be honored!

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT

I'd love to see a HCH marathon too & really see what can be done with top drivers. But I think you should be driving a stock car as intended by the manufacturer. This gives the Prius an advantage because it's designed to be driven ICE off and that can be maxed by a good driver with P&G for really high mileage. But I don't think driving the HCH and forced stoping the ICE repeatedly to P&G, or just glide for that matter, is driving the car the car in a normal or stock manner. I think you could easily (well maybe not that easily for most of us) get in the 80's and maybe 90mpg- but you won't be able to get over 100mpg the way the car is set up currently. (maybe you should wait for a 2006?) It furthers the hybrid cause to the general public much more if you can get awesome mpg without extreem measures. We're already considered a bunch of anemic slowpokes!
just my 2 cents

KLC
2005 HCH CVT 'Verdigeek'

Hi All:

___Tbaleno, as we have discussed on numerous occasions, you have the car and I have the course. No stop signs or lights for 10 whole miles one way and 10 whole miles back. Flat as the proverbial pancake other then the one end as described in the “92.x mpg on my first try …” thread. Even that is nothing compared to what we were climbing into and out of on Dan’s course in the Prius II. Centrally located for Lakedude to head up north and RJ to head West. Well sort of I have to travel 95 miles south to it myself. Hotel’s are dirt cheap in the area too … I traveled 500 + miles to the Prius II Marathon and it was no biggie but I NEED YOUR CAR TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT IS WORTH on that course using a type of P&G technique. It is actually simpler because there are any number of iterations we had to use on Dan’s course because of the hills but the results are proof that for the Prius II, those hills made it shine like no one had ever thought possible. I am hoping he will head out to Illinois late this year to visit relatives so Tom and I can not only take him and his family out for a great dinner but to get his Prius II out on my course to see if 110 + is possible on the flats. I think it is but I have no way of knowing until he arrives. If your car proves to be worthy, all of the amps, sub, and Stereo gear will have to go for any attempt. There is simply too much weight sitting in her and the amp draw when on is ridiculous. That might preclude yours from being involved in any such event but at least you can use it to find out ~ where the top lyes. You already know all of this already though.

___In the case of the HCH, I think it’s worth ~ 100 mpg but I am simply guessing by my 65 mpg run in Tom’s through the suburbs of Chicago earlier this year using FAS’s when they were available etc. I didn’t know about P&G then. Question is, will someone take advantage of it?

___The more I drove Dan’s Prius II, the more I was thinking Honda has their head’s in the sand. That statement is way to kind in fact. We all know the Insight’s 19 mpg or less for an AS was way to low an MPH target but the rest is wrong too. They simply do not know how to setup IMA to take advantage of ICE off time and their assist with almost any touch of the accelerator is insane. With that, I think the CVT based HCH might be better suited to this as it will stay locked in the tallest gear from 30 + all the way up. This is a city like technique and the CVT is actually higher rated in the city then the 5-speed. It is the speed range that needs to be found is all. I think I can find it if I have an HCH on my own course for about 4 hours. Until that time, someone will have to do the HCH dance somewhere else? The CVT or 5-speed stick - HCH will glide far better then the Prius II because they are disconnected in Neutral unlike the Prius II in Glide when there is still quite a bit of propulsion gear spinning away and holding her back. The Prius II however is one hell of a hypermiling machine when pushed and I can only say the Insight 5-speed w/ FAS’s though some range can beat it. It will be a lot of work however. Not technically given the flat course but manually by performing what the Prius II can be coaxed into with a little accelerator angle play vs. all the gyrations an Insighter will need to have performed. I think Rick was nailing down 110 + mpg segments without FAS’s in his Insight on Dan’s course but I will E-Mail him privately to get the details … With the Regen needed to maintain the pack for IMA starts, he was letting her come down in regen to the 19 mph barrier and using a std. AS the rest of the way down when hitting all of the lights we were all hitting segment after bloody segment.

___As for the SuperMid, it would be helpful but all you need is someone not holding an LMPG in their Trip B. The HCH’s 120 mpg FCD is good enough for this already. To bad you guys didn’t have an Insight as it had Trip A, Trip B, LMPG, and an FCD. All 4 would hold a segments FE as well as show the instantaneous and the rest of the Insight’s functions. I wish I had mine now but it will take at least 3 round the clock days of solid driving to nail down ~ 1,820 miles on a single tank of gas in it at 130 mpg and a vapor recovery filled 14 gallons of fuel. I know the Insight is worth at least 2,000 + miles but that was when I was using the 0 - 30 mph P&G maxxing out the display at 150 mpg. Who would actually drive an Insight with an average speed of ~ 13 mph for 2,100 miles? Nobody! Well, maybe not nobody now It is a 30 - 35 mph average that needs to be advertised to receive this kind of FE, not 10 - 13 mph

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

Hi KLCarch:

___Without FAS’ing the HCH, it will not approach anywhere near 80 mpg. Even if you could coax an HCH to 80 mpg for a < 1,300 miles tank, it would be like kissing your sister (I have never and will never kiss your sister ) in that it will not prove a thing that hasn’t already been exceeded by a vast amount in any number of hybrid’s or non-hybrid’s.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

Do you have a link I could go to to download the video you made? I make the trip up to Atlanta 3-4 times per year and though I'm not a very seasoned hypermiler (if one at all outside of the days where it all just comes together), I'd still be very excited to see the creme de le creme of hybrid drivers juicing on a HCH.

I took a test drive, one lap, on my proposed HCH marathon course. The course took me 48 minutes to drive 28.3 miles from the start/finish point. My mpg display read 113.9 at the finish. The photo is what the display read when I got home to where my camera was located. http://www.greenhybrid.com/share/image413.html

I think we can beat the 1st Annual Prius Marathon not only in miles traveled on a tank, but even in mpg, if we really want to.

Did you have to shut off the engine? Or did you let the car perform as the manufacturers intended.

Also, what is the speed limit of the road. If my calculations are correct you averaged 35mph.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"