Hi,

I'm fairly new here. I've been reading the forums from the wings and finally decided to join and post. My title for this post may seem vague, so let me clarify a bit. I recently went to my local dealer and was perusing the available Civic Hybrids. Now at this dealership (Superior Honda on 144th if you know the Omaha area), the window stickers had pollution indicies. They basically showed potential buyers how the car they were looking at faired in comparison to other cars in overall tailpipe emissions. The HCH was at a 90 or .90 (don't recall exactly how it was labeled) out of an 80 or .80. The sticker was basically saying that this car, a hybrid, was a worse polluter than the average car in its class.
On top of that, a nearby non-hybrid Element, which was based on the same scale (as near as I could tell) was much lower. Huh? I know that in certain states, like California, that the HCH is available as a lean burn, SULEV but not here in Nebraska. But why is it not just a default to make all the HCH's SULEV? Does it cost more to make them that way? And why does the Element (the one I saw was the same model year, an '05) have better emissions output than the HCH? Just seems counterintuitive to me. Some enlightenment would be appreciated.

P.S. - All of that being said, I still am enamored with the cars and would buy one in a heartbeat if my wallet wasn't on life support.

not sure about the emissions portion of your question, but when I read superior at 144th st, It clicked. I am from Omaha and bought my HCH at O'daniel. I think that my salespersons name was heidi...maybe. They were very nice, superior just blew me off. They treated me very well, and since price was my biggest issue, they worked with me most on price.

I absolutely love my hybrid. If you get one, let me know, I think it would be cool to start an owners group here in omaha.

...most likely a donkey, but if he had to drive a car, i bet it would be a hybrid.

Hi Atomic Frog:

___Boy that nick sounds familiar?

___The Emissions of the HCH available in NE. is a straight LEV-II based automobile. Not super clean but just about average. The PZEV based HCH’s and non-hybrid Accord are the cleanest on the planet. There are credits for building/selling PZEV’s in CA. as well as the availability of LS fuels to really drive down their emissions. In NE., you have 2 strikes aginst you but the LS fuels were on there way if it were not for Katrina the other day Cost wise, it is between $150 and $300 for the MAF and much more robust CAT. Honda only receives $150.00 for it per the sticker IIRC.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

wayne, could you elaborate?

...most likely a donkey, but if he had to drive a car, i bet it would be a hybrid.

So can I bump my 2003 ulev hch to a sulev or pzev by getting a better cat or adding another inline?

Thats what I am wondering wayne.

...most likely a donkey, but if he had to drive a car, i bet it would be a hybrid.

pzev has a smaller tank too- apparently because of liner to contain fumes.

you could just let honda do the conversion for you- in other words, go to CA,NY or MA and get a pzev hch! costs the same as the sulev. and you'd have the fun of driving it back and practising your mileage technique.......

maybe you could get your dealer to get one from the east or west coast? for your info- there is an emmisions sticker under the hood, and the 2 different engines have different numbers that can be found there- if you're interested in pursuing a pzev car. I've got one and I love it!
Kate

KLC
2005 HCH CVT 'Verdigeek'

Hi Wwjdrv:

___I am sure you could do the conversion … For about $2,500! Those CAT’s are something like $1,100 + all on their own IIRC?

___For those interested in a PZEV, just travel to one of the 5-clean states or one that borders and offers PZEV’s. It is a lot cheaper that way …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

Yeah, I've heard Superior is anything but in some cases... I don't know of anyone who has purchased from O'Daniel though. If I ever get enough $$$ I'll have to check them out first. Do you happen to know if Nebraska itself has any incentives for buying a hybrid? I know there is a federal tax credit you can get through the IRS, but some states (like CA or New Jeresy) have bonuses at the state level. Back to the PZEV or lean-burn Civics: I wonder if you could buy one via the internet and have it delivered to your city, or would the dealership be able to order one specifically for you (sort or like when buyers place orders for the Prius and have to wait 3 months) ?
One last thing: have you had any experiences driving the HCH in the winter? I wonder how it handles?

NO!!! dont try the mods. If this requires a MAF and another cat. Then think about it. There will be more ecu ports and a new data set. The hardware adders would be the easy part and the cheapist,, and there way tooooo much. Then theres the ecu, and the whole retune that would need to be done not to mention, basicly it would be a hack. It would basicly be going to your local rice tuner with dyno and asking them to detune and add all this hardware to the car. Then they would have to redo your fuel curve, air curve, vtec. Road tune then polish it off with a dyno tune. And if you all knew how hard these tunes would be and the tank of gas waisted for the tune. You would pass out.

Keep it factory and think about air intake preheat. Thats not that hard and can be done with basic relay lodgic, either with water and a small exchanger in the duct length wise or a electric element. And some real basic controls. Im suprise toy and honda arent doing it for the peeps up north. Im real suprised that this hasnt been done right by tech heads in the hyper game already. Ive seen post of it being tried and done with some issues. I cant see why it would be so hard. as with most things I see in pumps, boilers, chillers and controls... the collage boys way over think it and screw it up. those odds are better than Vegas odds... LMAO