Maganese Based (such as MMT) Fuel - GreenHybrid

manchild · #1 (**permalink**) 03-05-2006, 09:55 AM

The manual says to avoid using fuel with maganese based additives. How do I know what fuel has these additives? Is there any specific gas stations I should avoid? Thanks.

IMAhybrid · #2 (**permalink**) 03-05-2006, 03:48 PM

I was just reading about this the other day... from Owner Link Maintenance fuel FAQs

Quote:

Do not use gasoline containing MMT (Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl). MMT is a gasoline additive that is used by some refiners to boost octane. It contains the metal manganese. This additive contaminates your engine components and exhaust emission control system, and can lead to a significant increase in emissions and a loss in performance and fuel economy. Damage caused by the use of fuels containing MMT mat not be covered under warranty. Gasoline containing MMT is not common in the United States. It is prohibited in federal reformulated gasoline and in all California gasoline. However, MMT has been found in some fuels in the Southwest, mountain states, and the northwest area of New York State. MMT is more prevalent in gasoline sold in Canada, but lately many MMT-free fuels have become available. Regardless of location, the presence of MMT in the fuel will not be indicated on the pump, so it is important to ask your fueling station if their gasoline contains this additive. Alternatively, you may contact the customer service department of your preferred fuel brand with this question.
If you notice any undesirable operating symptoms, try another service station or switch to another brand of gasoline.

mexiken · #3 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 12:56 PM

Its not common, like the FAQ answer says, in the US. You might be confusing it with MTBE, which is still used in more stringent states. I did that too when I first read it. MTBE is an additive that oxygenates fuel, helping keep the emissions down. Its NOT maganese based, and the HCHII CAN run on it, up to 10% by volume, says so in the manual. But here in California we use a lot of ethanol too, and I think there was just a study released or about to released that pegs MTBE as cancer-causing when exposed to it long-term, which means refineries will stop using it soon. I remember our Senator releasing a statement about it not too long ago.

ElanC · #4 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mexiken

Its not common, like the FAQ answer says, in the US. You might be confusing it with MTBE, which is still used in more stringent states. I did that too when I first read it. MTBE is an additive that oxygenates fuel, helping keep the emissions down. Its NOT maganese based, and the HCHII CAN run on it, up to 10% by volume, says so in the manual. But here in California we use a lot of ethanol too, and I think there was just a study released or about to released that pegs MTBE as cancer-causing when exposed to it long-term, which means refineries will stop using it soon. I remember our Senator releasing a statement about it not too long ago.

I believe MTBE is no longer used in California. It's been replaced by 10% ethanol.

mexiken · #5 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 02:48 PM

No its still legal and still used here in California. I just saw a label on a gas station here that stated that there was MTBE in the gas, and that it could POSSIBLY cause cancer. The statement our senator, Barbara Boxer, made maybe about two or three weeks ago was actually pushing for ethanol to replace MTBE. She was even calling for some legislation to mandate it, since in a month or two NO ONE is going to want to use MTBE, because of that study that I presume. I'm not clear on that. Point is, most gas stations DON'T use MTBE already (voluntarily stopped using it) but there is no law that says they can't, and some still do. I think Mobil does. I know 76 doesn't.

ElanC · #6 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mexiken

No its still legal and still used here in California. I just saw a label on a gas station here that stated that there was MTBE in the gas, and that it could POSSIBLY cause cancer. The statement our senator, Barbara Boxer, made maybe about two or three weeks ago was actually pushing for ethanol to replace MTBE. She was even calling for some legislation to mandate it, since in a month or two NO ONE is going to want to use MTBE, because of that study that I presume. I'm not clear on that. Point is, most gas stations DON'T use MTBE already (voluntarily stopped using it) but there is no law that says they can't, and some still do. I think Mobil does. I know 76 doesn't.

That's incorrect as far as I know. The label you saw may have been there because they forgot to take it off. The total ban on MTBE went into effect in California on January 1, 2004.
Quoting from this web page written in 2003 -
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/mtbeban/
"Most of the attention concerning State MTBE bans has been focused on California, which consumes approximately 32 percent of the Nation’s MTBE.Originally California was set to ban all ethers (including MTBE) by January 1, 2003.That deadline has been postponed for a year until January 1, 2004, out of concerns for potential supply disruptions.Even though several major refiners announced their intention to phase out MTBE by January 1, 2003, only ConocoPhillips has already completed the switch.Shell, BP, and ExxonMobil indicated their intention to switch out of MTBE blended gasoline inCalifornia markets by the first quarter of 2003.Valero, ChevronTexaco, and Tesoro do not intend to produce MTBE-free gasoline until California’s MTBE ban comes into effect next January."

And here's a recent editorial about MTBE and ethanol in California -
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...a/14049435.htm

stevejust · #7 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mexiken

Its not common, like the FAQ answer says, in the US. You might be confusing it with MTBE, which is still used in more stringent states.

MTBE's been banned in about 27 states, including the most stringent: CA.

MMT was primarily made by one Canadian company, and you have about a zero percent chance of actually getting gas containing it.

mexiken · #8 (**permalink**) 03-10-2006, 06:18 PM

Well then allow me to get my foot out of my mouth, thanks....

That doesn't make any sense why Barbara Boxer would say that. Unless she was referring to the other states that use it, but still, she made it sound some other way.