Hi Trinity,

Subsidizing hybrid tech will only play into the hands of companies and consumers that game the system (think of the chevy trucks), and will not be used to improve FE, because that is not a strong broad-based consumer interest. Oversized vehicles would continue to proliferate, abetted by the 20 - 25 mpg that hybrid tech allows, that is the "ok" level for people seeking these kinds of vehicles.

Overall fuel use in the country would not decrease. In fact it would probably increase, as more people felt they had to upsize to feel safe. These ever enlarging cars is really a vicious cycle that sucks in people who otherwise wouldn't be buying them.

I have a living example at home. My wife had probably never seen a car bigger than a Honda Civic before coming to the US in 1991. Last year she started talking about an SUV, "to be safer, and high enough off the road to see past the other SUV's on the road." We compromised on the Prius.

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

I have to second lars-ss - if it was that easy, the automotive industry would do it in a heartbeat for competive advantage.

I hear various stories of a 100mpg car under wraps - stuff that would get good airplay on Coast to Coast with Art Bell. Assuming GM and Ford are conspiring with the oil companies to get us to drive 15mpg vehicles forever (I don't), why doesn't Honda or Toyota introduce the 100mpg car? Some of these conspiracy theories make it sound like Ford has a secret 50mpg F-150, and Toyota would not introduce it's 50mpg Titan?

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

I'm convinced there's a team assigned to new car designs that does nothing but ensure that you either need to purchase a $200 tool or see the dealer for at least 5 simple tasks.

To your point, it makes no since for a company to roll out something that is better than a competetive advantage in most industries. Look at the car ads people drool over and base purchasing decisions on. RARELY do the ads say how much better one vehicle is over their competitor in a category (hp, cargo capacity, towing capacity, etc.); they just say it's better than another car. Few people make a rational decision on a car purchase. It's a very emotional experience for most of us.

Hi All:

___I E-Mailed Mark last night just to say hi and find out how things were going. I missed him and his girl friend at the Hybrid Group Meet and became even more concerned after reading this thread. There were no real issues except that he had to work last Sunday unfortunately

___He passed on to me a few details that he said I could share in regards to the interview. Although it sounded both clean and positive from his perspective during the phone interview, it was twisted afterwards.

___With that, he asked that I post to the group most of his reply. Here it is in its entirety minus the personal information …
___Although we all know what the press can do to an interview and what this guy did here, it may have embarrassed Mark to the point that he doesn’t want to post here at GH or anywhere else for that matter, ever again! This is a huge loss for all of us given his above board - Honda technical knowledge in particular. Anyone that knows the explicit differences between the b16a, K24, and J30 (not just cylinder volume either) deserves our attention and believe me, that was only the tip of the ice berg as to the depths of his knowledge in regards to Honda ICE’s. To add to the above, his commute can best be described as “Total - Hell”. He was heading towards hypermileage in another 10 or so tanks even with what I would call an “Everest” type challenge each and every day. I can only hope he continues to both post into the various threads here at GH were his contributions are needed as well as add future tanks to the RHMDB as time moves on.

___Mark, if there is anything I can do, just let me know as I am only a phone call away.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

GreenAndBlue,

In case you are lurking, I've been deceived/had on the internet big time myself. Yes, I realize the actually damage was over the phone, but it's still someone you met over the line that took advantage of you. I've come to the conclusion that there is a false intimacy on the net that makes us too comfortable with people we would correctly avoid if we were face-to-face.

As in many situations, the victim is feeling guilty while the perpertrator moves on to prey on others. GreenAndBlue, you made an honest mistake - don't withdraw because of it. He was intent on an anti-hybrid article - it did not matter who he interviewed.

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

Maybe he could create another username and come back incongnito. No one would need to know its him. I'm going to drop it now as he probably doesn't want this much attention.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

I'll say it again. I don't think Mark hurt the hybrid cause. And except for a letter to the editor clarifying HAH MPG data, I don't really feel a lot of acrimony towards the NYT either; I've read *much* worse garbage.

In the worse case, the NYT took a sucker punch at the HAH -- and even there, didn't dispute the car is performance luxury car. I don't think any of us dispute that a significant part of the HAH design was towards acceleration and not FE. Am I missing things here ?

Addendum: I looked up the EPA for the HAH and the V6:
HAH: 29/37
V6: 21/30

I'd have to look at the article again, but this is probably the most glaring error, since I think the reporter wrote these two cars get similar MPG.

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

Darn! I can't review the article!

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

This hits the nail right on the head. Auto makers could care less about reduced dependence on gas or the environment. They care about what we'll buy, and what will make them money. So we have to care for them, buy supporting the technology with our pocket books. I too think FE ought to be way more than it is, and that auto makers are holding back. However each time someone buys a hybrid, whether an Insight or 20 MPG Hummer, it inches us forward.

I just wish they knew how quickly they could get my money if they produced an 80-100 MPG car...