I'm not convinced the new Civic Hybrid is full. Can it start out on all-electric? Can it accellerate without the engine spinning? Can it simultaneously create and use electricity? When exactly does the 'limited' EV mode work? I'm on the list to test drive one any day now. Hoping to get more questions answered then...

'04 Seaside Pearl #7. Fumoto oil drain, mudflaps, rear bumper scuff protector & rear warn system, compass mirror, EV mode button, 8" subwoofer in right rear cubby & 6" subs under seats, power lumbar in the front seats, Coastaletech hitch w/ Aspen bike/snowboard rack. iPod2car, 2 amps, Alpine component speakers, and DVD video, solid 47 MPG @ 70000 miles.

I can answer a couple of those those questions:

1. Cannot start out on all-electric.
2. Cannot accelerate without engine spinning.

It's not a full hybrid, but I think it now in the second generation has moved beyond "Mild Hybrid" stage. That's why I'm asking people if we need a new category.

Well the Prius isn't a full hybrid either since it can't run at proper suburban speeds (45+miles per hour) without the engine having to turn on or at least spin. In fact, "full hybrid" doesn't exist on account of I say so, kind of like you saying the Civic isn't a full hybrid on account of you say so.

AZCivic, I was referring to the hybrid categories listed in the table in my opening post.

Prius fits in "Full Hybrid" category according to that table.

No hybrid car to date can run full electric at hwy speeds - only full ELECTRIC cars can do that, and not for very long !!

That's true, I say so.

'04 Seaside Pearl #7. Fumoto oil drain, mudflaps, rear bumper scuff protector & rear warn system, compass mirror, EV mode button, 8" subwoofer in right rear cubby & 6" subs under seats, power lumbar in the front seats, Coastaletech hitch w/ Aspen bike/snowboard rack. iPod2car, 2 amps, Alpine component speakers, and DVD video, solid 47 MPG @ 70000 miles.

Heh. I guess not being a "full" hybrid in some ways it bad eh? Who came up with the idea of full and partial hybrids anyway. Whats wrong with just hybrids?

I kind of like hondas attitude of cheap and simple. If it gets the FE of a prius (or pretty close) and puts out the same emisions and has similar power why go with a full hybrid system. The more components the more potential for failure and losses in transmision of engergy.

BTW, where did you get the table.

P.S. Do I rant too much?

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

Got the table at:

http://www.realtechnews.com/posts/2025#more-2025

This hints at the IMA vs. HSD debate. Which kind of hybrid is best for you depends if you drive in the mountains, mostly stop-and-go, or mostly freeway.

For my kind of driving, I'd love to have a plug-in IMA hybrid that could approach cruising speed in an EV mode, then cruise in ICE mode, trickle-charging if necessary. Does not exist yet.

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

Then so does the HCH-II. If "being able to drive at times using only the electric motor" is the precise definition of "full hybrid" that we're using for the purposes of this discussion, the HCH-II's electric-only low-speed cruise fits the bill. If the criterion replaced "drive" with "accelerate", then clearly the Prius (plus HH, FEH, and Mariner) is the hybrid that fulfills this definition.

I'll agree with Tom that we're mincing words at this point, anyway. The near-equivalent performance of the current "full" and "mild" hybrids makes such quibbling over semantics pointless. Rather than invent new subcategories, let's do away with them altogether. I don't say that because as a Honda owner, I feel that my car is impugned as a hybrid by use of the term "mild" - I couldn't care less, it still delivers the FE - I just think that we should just settle with "hybrid" for all hybrid cars. In five or ten years, there will probably be so many different "types" of hybrids that this discussion would be even more moot.

I have the same warm fuzzy hybrid feeling towards Prii and HCHs alike.