“Tbaleno takes the Gloves Off” w/ his CVT based HCH - P&G ;-)
“Tbaleno takes the Gloves Off” w/ his CVT based HCH - P&G ;-)
#2
09-05-2005, 04:47 PM
Re: “Tbaleno takes the Gloves Off” w/ his CVT based HCH - P&G ;-)
I just made one edit. I knew you would be much more detailed that I would be. Thanks again for the fun. It was a great way to spend the last day of vacation. It makes me want to drive to work tomorrow to see what the improvement in my daily comute will be.
#3
09-05-2005, 08:19 PM
Pretty Darn Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 335
Re: “Tbaleno takes the Gloves Off” w/ his CVT based HCH - P&G ;-)
Guys, that was awesome, inspiring, incendiary. Makes me want to go drive right now just for the sake. I've spent the tank I'm about to run dry trying P&G when applicable, but I just have not tested it under such thorough or precise exercise. On reading your report, Wayne, I'm very encouraged to see many of the results I've suspected from my own experimentations have been answered definitively by yours. I'd hope this thread gets the old "sticky" from Jason b/c every HCH owner should read its report, but I'm copying and pasting to Word just in case. 
Thank you for the time and effort you spent...I know it will pay off for dozens of us here!
Thank you for the time and effort you spent...I know it will pay off for dozens of us here!
#4
09-06-2005, 04:09 PM
Re: “Tbaleno takes the Gloves Off” w/ his CVT based HCH - P&G ;-)
Wayne,
How did you keep the charge up when using the "accel then reboot then glide" method in the HCH? I tried that for a couple of miles today in City driving 20-40 MPH and my charge dropped each time, and there was virtually NO CHARGING taking place - I ended up with only 1 lonely bar after about two miles of driving, after starting with 8 bars.....Did I need to START out with a full charge for this to work properly?
Sensei, what was I doing wrong?
How did you keep the charge up when using the "accel then reboot then glide" method in the HCH? I tried that for a couple of miles today in City driving 20-40 MPH and my charge dropped each time, and there was virtually NO CHARGING taking place - I ended up with only 1 lonely bar after about two miles of driving, after starting with 8 bars.....Did I need to START out with a full charge for this to work properly?
Sensei, what was I doing wrong?
#5
09-06-2005, 04:19 PM
Re: “Tbaleno takes the Gloves Off” w/ his CVT based HCH - P&G ;-)
Once you get to about 6 bars during your acceleration phase you should be charging and not assisting. If you are in assist at 6 bars you are probably accelerating to fast. Try to use less gas pedal.
#6
09-06-2005, 04:25 PM
Re: “Tbaleno takes the Gloves Off” w/ his CVT based HCH - P&G ;-)
You know what I think? I think the computers in the CVT and the MT handle this situation differently. I can never ever remember a time when it has charged during even the mildest of mild acceleration....I will try that and report back tomorrow. Thanks Tom...
#7
09-06-2005, 07:32 PM
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 2,567
Re: “Tbaleno takes the Gloves Off” w/ his CVT based HCH - P&G ;-)
Hi Lars-ss:
___Hmmmm … Let’s start out at 18 + bars first although I do not think that is an issue at all. I haven’t driven the HCH w/ a stick inside the techniques boundaries so it may in fact act differently. Hit the highway for about 5 miles and turn the lights on to bring your SoC up before you start. After that, perform the technique just as described above. You should see your SoC fall ~ 2 bars at each pulse and then at some lower SoC, you will not see any Assist during any pulse following. This is the SoC you want to hold during every P&G cycle afterwards. Forced charging may or may not appear in the MT but if you stay at 1 bar and do not see any Assist, something is holding her at 1 bar and I can only assume a heavier hidden charge is at work. If you do see Forced charging on a pulse, that is another tip that the SoC is where it should be and the BCM is controlling just as it was supposed too.
___Are you saying you have never seen a forced charge down at that level of SoC, ever? I never had the opportunity to drive the Insight 5-speed using this technique but the BCM has to kick and say hey, its time to bring the SoC up or you would deplete the pack after X many of Assists (dependant on rate of discharge) and it would never charge back up. In fact, it would be a useless paperweight afterwards! The pack has to be depleted to some relatively low level before the BCM says no Assist and only Forced or Hidden Charging can take place. I am thinking you are not into the accelerator enough possibly? A 2,450 - 2,650 RPM acceleration in the CVT is not what I would call a light take off in the least. Play with your acceleration rate until you see a Forced Charge appear given you own the stick. That will lead you to Auto SoC control although it may not be the optimal acceleration rate?
___Last item … Have you had the ECU update performed by chance?
___Good Luck and keep us updated.
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___Hmmmm … Let’s start out at 18 + bars first although I do not think that is an issue at all. I haven’t driven the HCH w/ a stick inside the techniques boundaries so it may in fact act differently. Hit the highway for about 5 miles and turn the lights on to bring your SoC up before you start. After that, perform the technique just as described above. You should see your SoC fall ~ 2 bars at each pulse and then at some lower SoC, you will not see any Assist during any pulse following. This is the SoC you want to hold during every P&G cycle afterwards. Forced charging may or may not appear in the MT but if you stay at 1 bar and do not see any Assist, something is holding her at 1 bar and I can only assume a heavier hidden charge is at work. If you do see Forced charging on a pulse, that is another tip that the SoC is where it should be and the BCM is controlling just as it was supposed too.
___Are you saying you have never seen a forced charge down at that level of SoC, ever? I never had the opportunity to drive the Insight 5-speed using this technique but the BCM has to kick and say hey, its time to bring the SoC up or you would deplete the pack after X many of Assists (dependant on rate of discharge) and it would never charge back up. In fact, it would be a useless paperweight afterwards! The pack has to be depleted to some relatively low level before the BCM says no Assist and only Forced or Hidden Charging can take place. I am thinking you are not into the accelerator enough possibly? A 2,450 - 2,650 RPM acceleration in the CVT is not what I would call a light take off in the least. Play with your acceleration rate until you see a Forced Charge appear given you own the stick. That will lead you to Auto SoC control although it may not be the optimal acceleration rate?
___Last item … Have you had the ECU update performed by chance?
___Good Luck and keep us updated.
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#8
09-06-2005, 10:55 PM
Re: “Tbaleno takes the Gloves Off” w/ his CVT based HCH - P&G ;-)
awesome info and very impressive results! i can't wait to try out this method on the way to work tomorrow...my best mpg on the way to work so far is ~52 and the speed limit on the road to work is 40 MPH, i'm excited to see what kind of results i get using this method
#9
09-07-2005, 07:33 AM
Re: “Tbaleno takes the Gloves Off” w/ his CVT based HCH - P&G ;-)
Originally Posted by xcel
Hi Lars-ss:
___Hmmmm … Let’s start out at 18 + bars first although I do not think that is an issue at all. I haven’t driven the HCH w/ a stick inside the techniques boundaries so it may in fact act differently. Hit the highway for about 5 miles and turn the lights on to bring your SoC up before you start. After that, perform the technique just as described above. You should see your SoC fall ~ 2 bars at each pulse and then at some lower SoC, you will not see any Assist during any pulse following. This is the SoC you want to hold during every P&G cycle afterwards. Forced charging may or may not appear in the MT but if you stay at 1 bar and do not see any Assist, something is holding her at 1 bar and I can only assume a heavier hidden charge is at work. If you do see Forced charging on a pulse, that is another tip that the SoC is where it should be and the BCM is controlling just as it was supposed too.
___Are you saying you have never seen a forced charge down at that level of SoC, ever? I never had the opportunity to drive the Insight 5-speed using this technique but the BCM has to kick and say hey, its time to bring the SoC up or you would deplete the pack after X many of Assists (dependant on rate of discharge) and it would never charge back up. In fact, it would be a useless paperweight afterwards! The pack has to be depleted to some relatively low level before the BCM says no Assist and only Forced or Hidden Charging can take place. I am thinking you are not into the accelerator enough possibly? A 2,450 - 2,650 RPM acceleration in the CVT is not what I would call a light take off in the least. Play with your acceleration rate until you see a Forced Charge appear given you own the stick. That will lead you to Auto SoC control although it may not be the optimal acceleration rate?
___Last item … Have you had the ECU update performed by chance?
___Good Luck and keep us updated.
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___Hmmmm … Let’s start out at 18 + bars first although I do not think that is an issue at all. I haven’t driven the HCH w/ a stick inside the techniques boundaries so it may in fact act differently. Hit the highway for about 5 miles and turn the lights on to bring your SoC up before you start. After that, perform the technique just as described above. You should see your SoC fall ~ 2 bars at each pulse and then at some lower SoC, you will not see any Assist during any pulse following. This is the SoC you want to hold during every P&G cycle afterwards. Forced charging may or may not appear in the MT but if you stay at 1 bar and do not see any Assist, something is holding her at 1 bar and I can only assume a heavier hidden charge is at work. If you do see Forced charging on a pulse, that is another tip that the SoC is where it should be and the BCM is controlling just as it was supposed too.
___Are you saying you have never seen a forced charge down at that level of SoC, ever? I never had the opportunity to drive the Insight 5-speed using this technique but the BCM has to kick and say hey, its time to bring the SoC up or you would deplete the pack after X many of Assists (dependant on rate of discharge) and it would never charge back up. In fact, it would be a useless paperweight afterwards! The pack has to be depleted to some relatively low level before the BCM says no Assist and only Forced or Hidden Charging can take place. I am thinking you are not into the accelerator enough possibly? A 2,450 - 2,650 RPM acceleration in the CVT is not what I would call a light take off in the least. Play with your acceleration rate until you see a Forced Charge appear given you own the stick. That will lead you to Auto SoC control although it may not be the optimal acceleration rate?
___Last item … Have you had the ECU update performed by chance?
___Good Luck and keep us updated.
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
On the issue of the forced charge at low charge levels, I cannot ever recall seeing that. Maybe I *DO* need to hit the accel a little harder - will try that today and post back.
And I did indeed have the famous ECU update, in July. Hard to know if it has affected my FE because of the hot humid (for us anyway) temps of this summer have forced me to use more A/C than last summer to avoid being a dripping wet pig at the end of my drive. So that probably has had more effect than the ECU update, but I cannot be sure about that until I get a few more months in and can compare last year to this year.
Thanks Wayne....
Larry S.S.
#10
09-07-2005, 09:33 AM
Re: “Tbaleno takes the Gloves Off” w/ his CVT based HCH - P&G ;-)
Congratulations guys! I am impressed. After thinking that P&G was not such a useful option in the HCH, as opposed to the Prius, I will now have to give it a try. I'm going to worry tho about what restarting the ICE at speed is going to do to my tranny.
A really helpful bit of data for comparison is the length of time in pulse and in glide. (got a stopwatch?) The rate of decelleration in glide (in mph per second) says a lot about your rolling resistance and the accelleration rate in pulse is another way to describe how much foot you put in it. I don't have many flat windless roads around Reno to try this on, so give me some hard data.
I'm trying to write the energy equation for a car under way, taking into account wind and rolling resistance, upgrade or down, accelleration and any other strong factors. And I need help with real-world numbers!
A really helpful bit of data for comparison is the length of time in pulse and in glide. (got a stopwatch?) The rate of decelleration in glide (in mph per second) says a lot about your rolling resistance and the accelleration rate in pulse is another way to describe how much foot you put in it. I don't have many flat windless roads around Reno to try this on, so give me some hard data.
I'm trying to write the energy equation for a car under way, taking into account wind and rolling resistance, upgrade or down, accelleration and any other strong factors. And I need help with real-world numbers!
Last edited by solecondad; 09-07-2005 at 10:25 AM. Reason: clarify last sentence
