Well in the case of car dealers it's not just negotiating. They have a special breed of trying to scam customers that goes far beyond traditional negotiating you'd expect from any other business. With cars dealers you have to constantly watch out for, be wise to and stubborn enough to not get caught in their scams. Like with cell phones, It truly is a trepidacious undertaking, and no matter how hard you try to cover your a$$, ask all the right questions, get all the right stuff in writing, it's nearly impossible to not get screwed somewhere.

* Dealer add-ons that you decline on the order, then they install them anyway ant try to charge you for them, claiming they can't remove them now.

*Verbal agreements that turn up different in the contract

* The good-guy/bad-guy salesman/salesmanager routine

* Extended warranties presented as required add-ons

*Delivering a car that's missing promised features, components or accessories

All of these things they try at every step of buying the car, even after you've negotiated the final price. It really is a special situation much more complex than negotiating a fair price.

Just say no.
I do - every time - to everything.
I make it clear in the first 30 seconds I'm paying cash, no trade in, no options, no exceptions.

It works every single time.

Nobody is holding a gun to your head.
Just remain alert and say no to everything.

All that stuff only works on people that it works on.
Yes they are slimeballs, but the wimpy customers share the blame for not saying no and leaving.

Dedicate a full day to the process.
Bring drinking water, snacks and a nice book to read.
Do whatever you need to do to relax.
Go alone, or with a person who can help you remain centered.
Anxiety is the enemy.

Be willing to just sit there and remain in silence after stating your point.
Giving into pressure to say something can show weakness.

I think the whole process stinks, but unless you want to part with a lot more money you have to work the system.

Need fewer troops to support.
Drive a hybrid.
Best tank 71.65 MPG.

Before this car I spent two years learning hypermiling on my 2004 HCH1.

You have been lucky to not be subjected to their nasty tricks. Sounds like you've succeeded at the normal negotiating but haven't experienced the truly nasty scams. All the things I listed have happened to me or a close family member.

I "just said no to pinstriping", adamantly, when I ordered the car. It is in writing on the contract. The car arrives, I go to pick it up and there's pinstriping on it and $275 on the invoice for it. I say I didn't want pinstriping. I argue for over an hour with the salesman, the sales manager, and the dealership manager all of whom try to convince me that if I want the car I have to buy the pinstriping because they can't take it off. I produce the contract clearly showing the line where I declined the pinstriping, they say that they always add pinstriping to the cars so it was an unaviodable oversight. I say "exactly" your mistake, not my problem, not paying for it, etc. Finally they decide to let me have it for the price on the contract. This is not a mistake. They do this intentionally to everyone and 99% of the people give in and pay for it because they think there's no other way to go home with the car they waited three months for and will have to wait an additional 3 months to replace. This way they bully customers to paying more than they agreed on.

This is just one of their nasty tricks. They do all kinds of stuff like this, so no matter how much you say no, no matter how careful you are, they still try to screw you and you have to fight VERY HARD to not get trapped in it. Especially when the car you've waited for is sitting there and yo uhave your earnest money at stake - they know they have you over a barrell and it becomes a battle of wits which is completely unethical IMO. Yes some people give in too easily, but that doesn't justify what the dealers are doing. It's not a person's fault for getting preyed upon by unscrupulous business practices, it is the unscrupulous business that's at fault. Yes people should know better, but that doesn't make it their fault if they're taken advantage of unfairly.

And it's not just as simple as saying NO. Perhaps on the first day when you're trying to make the initial deal, which is the only portion of the process that you've acknowledged. But when you have waited three months for a car which you've put money down on, and the dealership is under legal contract to sell it to you as ordered for the price agreed upon, it's not just a matter of saying NO when they start jerking you around. You shouldn't have to hire a lawyer to buy a car. A house maybe, but not a car. It is not a persons fault when the dealer blatantly tries to breach a contract and bully the person into letting them get away with it.

Zimbop's experience is exactly what I am talking about. Whenever I have dealt with a car dealership I always feel like I am fighting with them tooth and nail every step of the way. At the same time I always get the impression they are hiding something, although the later is maybe more common with used car dealerships. Or you go in and they try to charge you an inflated price.

One time I looked at a new HCH and then a week later I saw a used one advertised in the paper at a different dealer. This dealer wanted to charge $3000 over the sticker price of a brand new car for one with 18,000 miles on it. At that time I knew there were most likely still brand new HCHs sitting on the lot of the other dealership (unless they'd all sold out suddenly, but HCH have never sold out like a Prius has).

It made me angry that I wasted my time going down to the dealership only to have them try to blatantly rip me off. I guess I could have negotiated, but why even bother when the starting point is inflated by probably $4000 ($3000 over a new, and it was also used). It also sucks knowing that someone else who was less knowledgeable probably ended up getting sold that overpriced car.

Maybe this is just an example that not all car dealerships are created equal, as my experience at the other one was not nearly as bad (although they tried the good salesman/bad salesman routine which was just annoying).

Anyway, we're getting way off topic of what the OP was asking. The moral of the story is that you need to be wary whenever you step onto the lot of a car dealership. Having to deal with all the nonsense that comes with buying a car is one of the best reasons to just drive one into the ground.

I'm just saying learn the game and play it.

Never finance - if you don't have cash get your loan elsewhere.
Never trade in - sell your old car yourself.
I've always made a point of picking a car that was sitting on the lot, even both hybrids were sitting on the lot.

Learn the ropes, and use them to your advantage.
Slimeball dealers are here to stay.
Adjust.

Need fewer troops to support.
Drive a hybrid.
Best tank 71.65 MPG.

Before this car I spent two years learning hypermiling on my 2004 HCH1.