AutoExpress over here in the UK have a very interesting article in the latest (print) issue. Can't see it online yet, but they've got a big picture of a reworked Prius (looks a bit like a Corrolla Verso from the front) and some news from Toyota as to what the next generation Prius will offer.

Here are the headline stats:

1) Finally made the leap to lithium-ion (at last!)

2) As a result, performance set to be much better (0-60 times at least 1 second lower from current).

3) No more gasoline-engine on during city driving (except once charge depleted).

4) Expected 94 miles-per gallon (US).

Given earlier leaks, this is almost certainly Toyota's first plug-in hybrid offering (9 miles AER was mentioned).

Article says Toyota are desperate to get it out before Subaru and Mitsubishi bring out their own lithium EVs (set to be 2010), so are aiming to release this new super-Prius by 2008!

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ecotech/ecot.htm

Probably the biggest issue for plug-ins is that the real world fuel economy will be ALL over the place for individual owners. Poeple who never plug it in and drive flat-footed everywhere with the A/C on max will still only get 35 to 40mpg. The most conservative drivers who only do short-hop drives at low speed without A/C and plug in all the time will likely be over 100mpg. The other thing is that the EPA test can't possibly tell you what its fuel economy will be without knowing how long your real commute is and if you plugged in before hand. This is going to make unbiased comparisons a lot more difficult.

good point. The testing metrics will al even further out of synch with current technology and habits.

For those reasons, the testing methods are bunk. However, they are all we have an do provide some insight into both what could be achieved under ideal circumstances (such as those provided by most on these boards) and as an apples-to-apples comparison. You know based on the tests that a Civic Hybrid is going to get roughly about 2.5 times the mileage of a Tahoe.

Those in the media that support these mileage figures without also putting a focus on responsible driving are no more qualified to report the news than those that believe we never went to the moon.

Support the Troops - Drive a Hybrid!

By the way, very cool article and I can't wait to see the new Prius and technology.

Support the Troops - Drive a Hybrid!

That problem exists with models currently in the GreenHybrid database:

MPG_ Range____ St.D. #_ Model
64.6 60.0–72.7 11.5 061 Honda Insight 2WD Manual
54.7 51.1–58.0 10.9 019 Honda Insight 2WD CVT
48.4 45.4–51.1 05.4 083 Honda Civic Hybrid I 2WD Manual
44.6 41.8–48.2 05.1 347 Honda Civic Hybrid I 2WD CVT
45.2 42.2–48.7 04.6 153 Honda Civic Hybrid II 2WD CVT
47.4 45.0–50.3 04.5 555 Toyota Prius II (HSD) 2WD eCVT
29.2 26.9–33.0 04.2 074 Honda Accord Hybrid 2WD Automatic
45.2 43.0–47.0 03.5 050 Toyota Prius I (THS) 2WD eCVT
29.4 26.9–32.8 02.9 009 Mercury Mariner 4WD eCVT
24.6 22.9–27.4 02.8 022 Lexus RX 400h 4WD eCVT
28.3 26.8–29.9 02.2 062 Ford Escape Hybrid 4WD eCVT
25.5 24.6–26.6 02.1 030 Toyota Highlander Hybrid 2WD eCVT
31.6 30.2–33.1 02.1 049 Ford Escape Hybrid 2WD eCVT
25.2 24.0–26.8 01.9 052 Toyota Highlander Hybrid 4WD eCVT

The old "Your mileage may vary" (YMMV) is a fact of life when there are two distinct drive mechanisms. Those who can maximize electric drive will get great mileage. Those who can't will get less. Will it be a 'problem', only to those who don't understand and see their individual vehicle as the universe of hybrid-electrics.

Now if the "Plug-in" comes with a switch that says "exclusive plug-in," there will be no problem. It will be an electric car with the strengths and weaknesses of an electric car including great MPG. But letting 'critics' dictate technology is the surest way to oblivion.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

I think the whole "plug in" factor will make this even worse, because it will introduce the cost of the electricity used to recharge while plugged in.

*** Retired after 65,000 outstanding miles ***

It is a nice problem to have. A couple of months ago, I was looking at using natural gas to dual fuel and pre-heat my Prius. So I used my utility bill to calculate the BTUs per dollar for natural gas and electricity. Electricity was substantially cheaper but then we have TVA power.

One other nice thing about electricity is home generation from wind and solar is becoming practical. In some areas, I understand home generation already makes economic sense.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

The other thing going in the favor of electrical is that many places offer time of use plans. Here in Phoenix, I think it's something like 12 cents per kwh if you're on the standard plan or 17 cents peak, 4 cents off-peak on the time-of-use plan. Cars would be able to get charged during off-peak hours, thus making them incredibly cheap. Gasoline is running what, $2.50/gal right now? In a Prius that will take you 50 miles or so. That same $2.50 would buy you 62.5 kw/h of off-peak electricity. Does anyone know how to guess at how many miles the average driver would get from 62.5kw/h worth of power? I could swear someone went through the numbers once, but I can't figure out where it was.

Shoot, I'll rig something up to my stationary bike to charge the battery. An hour a day on the bike might move the car a good 1/4 mile.

/got nothing.