Hey everyone next year I am thinking about replacing our Civic EX with an Altima or Camry Hybrid (provided I can get a good price) late next year. Our family is growing and I think one of these two would make a good family car.
Anyone else considering them? They both look interesting and will be 4 cylinders + electric from what I understand.
I wonder if they will be all-inclusive as most hybrids seem to be or if there will be many options packages. I hope that side and side curtain airbags are not an option but included standard.
I agree with CG. It would sure be nice is VSC made it into standard packaging, but that may take a while longer. Worth paying for, IMO.
R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles
Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."
The Altima will behave like a Toyota hybrid, where the Honda,....well will behave like a Honda hybrid.
The Altima would be a great car for a high school kid. Keep it under 30MPH in the neighborhood and the parents would never hear him/her sneak out at night
The Altima will behave like a Toyota hybrid, where the Honda,....well will behave like a Honda hybrid.
The Altima would be a great car for a high school kid. Keep it under 30MPH in the neighborhood and the parents would never hear him/her sneak out at night
???
The Altima is a Nissan, and the Camry is a Toyota...where's the Honda? Other than the ones already on the street, I mean...
AFAIK only the HAH comes w/ all the bells and whistles standard- the Prius and HCH, at least, have several option pkgs. So do the FEH and HH. I sort of liked the one-size-fits-all method in this case. Made picking the specific car easy- no searching through 8 dealer inventories or special ordering.
I was confused about where he got the Honda hybrid from too... I guess he was talking about my Civic Hybrid or my Civic EX.
The Civic Hybrid is all-inclusive just like the Accord, but it is a bit less luxurious. No options packages on my 2004, but NAV is the one option on the 2006 HCH.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonavy
???
AFAIK only the HAH comes w/ all the bells and whistles standard- the Prius and HCH, at least, have several option pkgs. So do the FEH and HH. I sort of liked the one-size-fits-all method in this case. Made picking the specific car easy- no searching through 8 dealer inventories or special ordering.
___I think we will be replacing the MDX w/ a Camry Hybrid next year too. If they didn’t screw it up? Toyota has said in a number of press releases and on their own web site that it will be a 4-cylinder (as it should) and I bet they use the Corolla’s ICE only they will Atkinsonize the intake, make it a PZEV w/ a more robust Cat and MAF, and add an updated HSD with > 41 mph non-ICE-Spin up capabilities. That last one is only a wish though
___Since the Camry XLE is a bit more upscale (HW wise) then the Prius I/II (non-Echo suspension underpinnings), I bet it will come with all the toys the std. Camry can be had with. ABS, EBD, VSC, TC, BA and front, side, and curtain airbags as std.
___As far as FE is concerned, I would not doubt you will see some amazing numbers just as we did with the Prius II when it was first released. The Toyota Echo’s 1.5 L is the block the Prius II is built around and it (the Echo) has a 35/42 rating with a stick vs. the Corolla’s 1.8 L at 32/41. Add 600 #’s to the Prius II and you have the Camry w/ HSD’s ~ total weight. In the recent past, I was thinking along the lines of 40 + /40 - city/highway but the more I think about it, I would not doubt we see a number around 52/45 like that of the Prius I? If so, Toyota will not be able to make enough of them in KY., Japan, Down under, or anywhere else for that matter! Unless of course they do something like charge $33,000 + for an XLE w/ HSD vs. the $22,795 std. I4 equipped XLE … If they do hit the magic 52/45 city/highway target (they know but are not going to tell us just yet), they can and will nail all of us on price due to lack of competition from anybody The Ford Fusion w/ eCVT might do some damage to the EPA city/highway as well but I do not think it has Prius II/Camry HSD like numbers going for it due to the Atkinsonized 2.3 L it will be built around? Throw in Mazda’s Direct Injected 1.8 and you have a completely different story. The 2.3 DI and turbo’ed Mazda 6 is quite the performer performance wise but its FE is middling at best. I am also quite sure that a 1.8 L DI ICE is nowhere near ready for production in any non-hybrid Mazda or Ford let alone the Fusion hybrid …
I read a rumor the other day that Toyota is shooting for a combined EPA of 65 in the next gen (?2007) Prius. That just seems too high to believe, but Toyota is not known to blow smoke.
I agree with you that increasing the no spin to greater than it's current 40 (or is it 41 ?) MPH is the REAL performance gain if it occurs. I strongly think that many of these HSD cars will be modified to plug-ins five years form now, and the all electric speed threshold is going to take on enormous significance. Increasing maximum battery power output to 25 kW would also be quite nice
R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles
Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."
Plug-in cars are not commercially viable because they're horribly inconvenient. It takes a long time to recharge batteries and you need very massive batteries to get decent range, and they don't last forever. It would be impossible for someone to recharge a car if they live in an apartment, on a high floor, or are staying in a hotel, sleeping at the office, or even just driving more than 200 miles a day (as with a road trip).
___Thank you for passing on that rumor as that kind of FE is absolutely scary for that size of an automobile! The thing is, I now know that kind of FE is easily possible in both the Prius and the Camry given the education Krousdb gave me pre “Marathon Attempt” and what I have learned post in the non-hybrid Accord when forced into a high percentage ICE-Off like driving mode at highway speeds of 50 - 70 + mph. All Toyota has to do is get that ICE-Off time up w/ a slightly larger pack, avoid ICE-Spin up to protect MG1 above 55 mph for the same low current draw below 40 mph (non-propulsion current w/ no ICE spin up above 40 mph and little to no MGSet synch current draw as HSD does today), and to keep enough MG1 torque in reserve to start the ICE above lets say a new lower dual geared/clutched MG1 at 5,000 RPM tomorrow vs. the 10,000 RPM threshold today. I learned about the ICE Spin up torque while at the Ford Hybrid Experience a few weeks ago since that is what Ford was bumping up against, not MG1 protection. When I mentioned MG1 protection above 40 mph with at least 5 of their best and brightest, I saw 5 strange looks as if they had no idea what I was talking about? It is a loss of startup torque at higher RPM’s, not just MGSet protection they had to engineer around from my discussions with them … Anyway, Ding - Ding - Ding - Ding - Bingo, Toyota gets the prize … If that Camry w/ HSD comes in with numbers higher then the HCH-II, there are going to be some very upset car company executives from every part of the world in the very near future … I do not see Toyota sitting on their heels and will be tinkering for even more FE advances from HSD in the future I am quite sure.
___CGameProgrammer, you do not have to plug in a PHEV if you do not want to. It will still receive the same stunning FE as an HEV as you are only looking at another 100 + #’s of pack or so. What it will do is allow a completely EV mode - RT commute for most of this country and this is where the real killer app is. Talk about owning the world overnight … If the pack costs come down just a little more of course. Why do you think Toyota purchased an equity stake in Panasonic EV Energy anyway How about paying $1.25 - $1.50 to your local electric utility to travel 50 miles instead of $2.50 - $2.70 to your local gas station?
Altima Hybrid vs. Camry Hybrid
The Ford Fusion w/ eCVT might do some damage to the EPA city/highway as well but I do not think it has Prius II/Camry HSD like numbers going for it due to the Atkinsonized 2.3 L it will be built around? Throw in Mazda’s Direct Injected 1.8 and you have a completely different story. The 2.3 DI and turbo’ed Mazda 6 is quite the performer performance wise but its FE is middling at best. I am also quite sure that a 1.8 L DI ICE is nowhere near ready for production in any non-hybrid Mazda or Ford let alone the Fusion hybrid …
