Eric-
I think we are on the same page.
Likely dissagree on some issues but hey- that's what it's all about.

Iboomalot:
I guess my comment wasn't directed at the diesel emission level, just that while I'm in AutoStop contributing zero pollution sometimes there's a 3 inch pipe at window- eye level billowing smoke.
Same as the gasoline powered school bus blowing oil smoke over the hood.

Kind of bugs me sometimes but I'll get over it. Hopefully AutoStop will become mainstream someday.

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT

Thanks for the detailed response Dave.

Your Civic quotes are not accurate as you are comparing a bare-bones trim level automobile to a fully loaded one.
Use your same link, choose the HCH's next lower model the EX, build the car as well as possible the the HCH and see about $1K difference. Last month my dealer had lots of nicely equipped EX's from $19,500 to around $23. Yes there were also much cheaper, less equipped ones available too. There are still some things that are only available on the HCH and not on the conventional models.
This is like saying the base Ford Taurus at $21,500 is the exact same car as its better sister the Mercury Sable with a few options added around $25,500.

Guess we'll just have to dissagree that the FCD is a great tool to use.
I hate the FCD on our Grand Caravan. It's part of the center roof console, out of line of sight, slow to update and wildly inaccurate.
Honda's system is much more functional as a tool.

I was also concerned about the advancement of technology back in the 1970's when mechanical points were replaced by solid state devices, the trusty carburator was phased out for injectors, ESC and the expensive, mysterious ECU appeared in every new car. If the ESC system is vastly more expensive than a simple step-up coil with points of yesteryear should we all still be adjusting point gaps? How about the electronic ODO?
There were alot of hypothetical situations to be made then as well, but in reality look how much better the automobile has become.
Should we have stopped all these advancements at the marketplace because they have more parts and parts can fail?

Back to batteries again.
EPA does not classify NiMH batteries as hazardous. Period.
Your quoted article is aged 4 years and battery technology regularly advances.
HEV NimH batteries are not the same as the AA, C and D:
http://www.edn.com/article/CA56654

Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you're saying that just because it has a battery the car is inherently defective to a purchaser as no one knows the actual battery condition.
It seems like you may not be aware that the SOC indicator is not a voltage or amperage meter at all. The car routinely polls its conditon, SOC, temperature, past measurements and a whole host of readings and outputs the correct condition displayed on the dash. A fresh restart, drive it or wait makes no difference to the display.
Your scenario of selling the car quickly to an unsuspecting buyer while the battery indicator shows good for the moment doesn't hold water. I'm also not sure if you're aware of this but Honda's system can still be driven with a flat HEV battery.
If you're a do-it yourselfer it would cost around $900 in parts
http://www.peve.panasonic.co.jp/catalog/e_maru.html
The latest Honda quote for full pack replacement last fall was $2,100 including labor.

I try to keep my cars for 10 years and at that time I'll have over 320,000 miles.
My battery warranty ends at 10 yr/150K. If the pack goes bad at...say 200K I'll likely begin a search for good, warrantied used pack or any new aftermarket ones that will likely bridge the expensive OEM gap.
If all else fails I'll just drive the car as it is and still get at least the EPA estimate.

I view used car inspections similar to home inspectors, as the two are the largest typical family expenditures.
I wouldn't hire a cheaper home inspector who's experience is farm buildings, and wouldn't take a hybrid car to the corner mechanic without hybrid experience.
That same corner mechanic must eventually update his training to the new technology as I wouldn't have my fuel injected, disk brake car inspected by a mechanic who only knows carburators and drums.

BTW, you are incorrect on the typical flickering surge protector light as it is only a neon indicator that flickers when one electrode can't pass enough current anymore and has nothing to do with the level of protection. It's only an "on" indicator.
The actual protection is provided by one or a combination of diode clamps, shunts, metal oxide varistors and spark gaps. If the clamps or varistors go bad (Blown) the mains fuse will open or the circuit breaker will trip. If you plug in a blown protector it will create a nasty spark before the breaker trips. I've replaced countless of these flickering/dead pilot lamps in 1950's -60's radios & tape decks.

-Steve

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT

Thanks for the emergency response link, it was very informative!

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT

I liked the part in bold that says recieving an elecric shock from a honda hybrid is highly unlikely.

And the part that says "Small quantities of a highly alkaline liquid electrolyte, which is corrosive to human tissue, are used in the manufacture of the high-voltage battery cells. however, in the finished cells, electrolyte is non-liquid and sealed in a metal case, and any leakage would be extremely rare. Moreover, the electrolyte is non-flammable, non-explosive, and creates no hazardous fumes or vapors in normal operationg conditions"

A lot of these boogiemen people fear in new technology is stuff we have hanging around our house in cleaners and other household items.

Just my thoughts on all this.

It was a nice read though. It gave me a warm fuzzy that I'm not driving a death trap.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

At least it didn't claim that the HV cables run through the doors, as was circulated about this time last year! I was looking for that.

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT

I heard they ran through the roof.

I think we need some greenhybrid project cars we can cut up and see what goes where.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

Sounds reasonable.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

Dave, did you really just compare the ipod battery to a hybrid battery? NiCad batteries were ALWAYS hazardous, the cadmium being the problem. NiMH and LiON don't have this material, they are collected together in the same program set up for NiCD but aren't the most hazardous thing in your trash. The lead acid battery in your car is far more hazardous, with a sealed (but spillable) electrolyte and toxic lead. I know hybrid cars have them too, I'm just saying it's junk science to say how dangerous the NiMH battery is when there are FAR more dangerous things in the car.

The gasoline is the most hazardous thing, by far. Oil (especially used) coolant, brake fluid... pour those over the "well" you mentioned above and let me know how the water tases. 1 quart of motor oil can contaminate a HUGE amount of drinking water. How did these things not make your list?

Have you ever check the MSDS for Diet Coke Post-Mix syrup (soda fountain) Surprise! It's hazardous! Has handling, cleanup, exposure information and everything. There's a bunch of things with MSDS that are similarily "harmful" but the Diet Coke one is always most amusing.

Toyota offers a $200 bounty for their batteries. I don't think most people will throw them away to "save a few bucks" in disposal costs. Likely Toyota will recondition the batteries to use in some way so I doubt the $200 is for goodwill.

You keep listing all these things that COULD go wrong, and anecdotes of people with equipment failures. Can you provide data showing these Hybrid vehicles to be LESS reliable than the average car? Total actual repairs in dollars higher than an average car? Some of these cars have been out 4+ years, there is enough time for data. Consumer Reports surveys car owners and found the Civic, both Hybrid and regular, to be more reliable than nearly every other car reported (60% better than average). (Not enough responses on Insight to rate) Prius did better than all vehicles but 3, 75% better than average. These were for vehicles in service, NOT brand new ones (a car has to be out at least a year to be fully rated). Where is your data about all these problems that "could" occur? You could list 1,000,000 things that could go wrong on a 737, it would just make people get upset about flying. While these things COULD go wrong, the aircraft are extremely reliable (even more than your non-Hybrid Civic!) despite heavy usage. Just because it has more electronics and systems doesn't mean it fails more.

Sounds like it was a good choice for you NOT to buy a Hybrid, none of the models suited you and the car you got was the PERFECT choice. Why are we having these discussions? Do you have buyers remorse? I don't.