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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2005, 07:39 PM
Eskrimast1 Eskrimast1 is offline
Wannabe Hypermiler
 
Location: Orange County, CA
Hybrids: 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid AT-PZEV
Posts: 174
Default Re: Brand of gas makes a difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesop
Am new to posting so here goes....I've had my trusty hybrid for over 2.5 years. I have almost 60,000 miles on it. I have noticed that if I fill up with certain brands of gas I get much better gas mileage. BP and Shell give me at least an extra 3-5 miles per gallon. I also can get into my normal range of 42mpg- 48mpg using Conoco. QT is a disaster in my car. The computer light comes on telling me that something is wrong with my emissions control system every time. Each week I drive the same mountain roads to Atlanta so I think I'm a good candidate for testing the different brands.... Has anyone else notice this too?
And thanks Jason, for the opportunity to connect with other folks who are enjoying these wonderful cars.
I don't have any empirical data for you on the differences in gasoline, but I suggest sticking to the Top Tier gasoline brands. Look here for more information:

http://www.toptiergas.com/

Quote:
Top Tier Detergent Gasoline TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is a recently established new standard for gasoline performance. Four of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance.

Since the minimum additive performance standards were first established by EPA in 1995, most gasoline marketers have actually reduced the concentration level of detergent additive in their gasoline by up to 50%. As a result, the ability of a vehicle to maintain stringent Tier 2 emission standards have been hampered, leading to engine deposits which can have a big impact on in-use emissions and driver satisfaction.

These automakers have raised the bar. TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline help drivers avoid lower quality gasoline which can leave deposits on critical engine parts, which reduces engine performance. That’s something both drivers and automakers want to avoid.
TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:

QuikTrip
Chevron
Conoco
Phillips
76
Shell
Entec Stations
MFA Oil Company
Kwik Trip/Kwik Star
The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Chevron-Canada (B.C. only)

.

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2005, 12:12 PM
Hot_Georgia_2004's Avatar
Hot_Georgia_2004 Hot_Georgia_2004 is offline
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Real Name: Steve
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Hybrids: 2004 Civic CVT Hybrid
Posts: 1,676
Default Re: Brand of gas makes a difference?

Aesop wrote:
Quote:
QT is a disaster in my car.
Wow! At least 95% of the fuel in my '04 has been QT regular without any problems.

I always seek the lowest price gas at big name chains and also buy at Sam's Wholesale Club.

I've always had poor performance with the few Chevron tanks I've tried, but not sure if it is for circumstances at the time.

.

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT

Last edited by Hot_Georgia_2004 : 11-02-2005 at 12:14 PM.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2005, 04:34 PM
stevejust stevejust is offline
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
Hybrids: 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid
Posts: 262
Default Re: Brand of gas makes a difference?

I'm going to re-echo my previous post in light of the "top tier" post above. ALL GAS COMES FROM THE SAME SMALL HANDFUL OF REFINERIES. Yes, there is some differentiation in the higher grades of gasoline in terms of proprietary additives. But unless you're buying premium gas, gas is gas. The 87 octane you get at ExxonMobil came from the same refinery that the 87 octane gas you buy across the street for three cents less.

As another post points out, because the cheaper station might sell more gas, the gas could conceivably be fresher.

.

BIOFUEL COMPATIBLE HYBRIDS NOW!
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2005, 09:34 PM
Eskrimast1 Eskrimast1 is offline
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Location: Orange County, CA
Hybrids: 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid AT-PZEV
Posts: 174
Default Re: Brand of gas makes a difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevejust
I'm going to re-echo my previous post in light of the "top tier" post above. ALL GAS COMES FROM THE SAME SMALL HANDFUL OF REFINERIES. Yes, there is some differentiation in the higher grades of gasoline in terms of proprietary additives. But unless you're buying premium gas, gas is gas. The 87 octane you get at ExxonMobil came from the same refinery that the 87 octane gas you buy across the street for three cents less.

As another post points out, because the cheaper station might sell more gas, the gas could conceivably be fresher.
I understand that all gas comes from a handful refineries, regardless of brand, but its the additive packages by the different brands that make the difference after the gasoline is refined, including 87/89 octane (or whatever the regular/mid grades are in your area). The refinery doesn't add some "one size fits all" additive mix and the additives don't just go into the premium grades. Top-tier is simply a standard to ensure that the gasoline you buy has the adequate detergency additive.

Most of the big name and discount retailers are top tier, with the exception of ExxonMobil and BP. In fact, I think it would be more difficult to avoid top tier gasoline. So as long as you're sticking to the 10+ top tier brands, then yeah . . . gas is gas.

This is from Honda's Owner's Link website:

FUEL FAQS

Are some gasolines better than others? What is "Top Tier Detergent Gasoline"?

In general, Honda recommends that you buy gasoline from high-volume, major name-brand stations.
To prevent the build up of deposits inside your engine and fuel system, it is important to choose fuels that contain effective detergent additives. The detergency of some US gasolines is insufficient to provide protection from such deposits. Honda recommends the use of "Top Tier Detergent Gasolines," where available. Gasoline brands with this designation meet new, voluntary standards and have demonstrated their ability to keep engines clean through a series of demanding tests. Significantly, Top Tier Detergent Gasoline does not contain MMT, a metallic additive that creates deposits in your engine and exhaust system; (see the MMT explanation below). Fuel brands that have achieved the Top Tier Detergent Gasoline designation can be identified through their marketing campaigns, and/or by fueling station signage.


Some gas stations in our area sell oxygenated fuels or fuels that contain other additives. What's Honda's position on these fuels?

Do not use gasoline containing MMT (Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl). MMT is a gasoline additive that is used by some refiners to boost octane. It contains the metal manganese. This additive contaminates your engine components and exhaust emission control system, and can lead to a significant increase in emissions and a loss in performance and fuel economy. Damage caused by the use of fuels containing MMT mat not be covered under warranty. Gasoline containing MMT is not common in the United States. It is prohibited in federal reformulated gasoline and in all California gasoline. However, MMT has been found in some fuels in the Southwest, mountain states, and the northwest area of New York State. MMT is more prevalent in gasoline sold in Canada, but lately many MMT-free fuels have become available. Regardless of location, the presence of MMT in the fuel will not be indicated on the pump, so it is important to ask your fueling station if their gasoline contains this additive. Alternatively, you may contact the customer service department of your preferred fuel brand with this question.

Some conventional gasolines are being blended with alcohol or an ether compound. These gasolines are collectively referred to as "oxygenated fuels." To meet clean air standards, some areas of the U.S. and Canada use these fuels to help reduce emissions. If you use an oxygenated fuel, be sure it is unleaded and meets the minimum octane rating requirement described in your Owner's Manual.

Before using an oxygenated fuel, try to confirm the fuel's contents. Some states/provinces require this information to be posted on the pump.

The following are the EPA-approved percentages of oxygenates: ETHANOL (ethyl or grain alcohol): You may use gasoline containing up to 10% ethanol by volume. MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether): You may use gasoline containing up to 15% MTBE by volume. METHANOL (methyl or wood alcohol): Gasoline containing methanol is not common in North America. Your vehicle was not designed to use fuel that contains methanol. Methanol can damage fuel system components. This damage would not be covered under warranty.

Fuels that exceed the EPA's approved oxygenate percentages for conventional and reformulated gasolines must be clearly labeled on the pump. One example of such a fuel is "E85," which contains 85% ethanol. Do not use such fuels in your vehicle. These fuels will cause performance problems, and may damage your vehicle's engine, fuel system, and emission control system. This damage would not be covered under warranty.

If you notice any undesirable operating symptoms, try another service station or switch to another brand of gasoline.

.

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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2005, 05:56 AM
fernando_g fernando_g is offline
Energy Independence!
 
Real Name: Fernando
Location: South Texas
Hybrids: Honda Civic
Posts: 302
Default Re: Brand of gas makes a difference?

In another vehicle (not my HCH) I filled up at an HEB, a local grocery chain store. Almost immediately the "check engine" lit up. Since the vehicle was in warranty, I took it to the dealership. He immediately recognized it as a emissions warning, stemming from poor gas.

But apparently it was an unique ocassion, because I have filled up many more times since, and never has the problem re-appeared. That time the gas must have been contaminated or something.

Along these lines, I've taken the precaution of adding a can of fuel injector cleaner every 3000 miles to all my vehicles.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2005, 06:36 AM
David Harville David Harville is offline
Go Army!
 
Real Name: David Harville
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Hybrids: 2005 Prius
Posts: 178
Default Re: Brand of gas makes a difference?

toptiergas.com has absolutely no info regarding WHO they are...

I used register.com to see who owns the site:

National Products Group
PO Box 3475
Tulsa, OK

The administrative contact's e-mail address is an AOL e-mail account -- interesting.

The phone number given for the administrative contact is (918) 836-8551 -- google says that that phone number belongs to

QuikTrip
901 N Mingo Rd.
Tulsa, OK

QuikTrip's website -- http://www.quiktrip.com/default.asp -- shows the very same PO Box at the very bottom of the page.

Why does toptiergas.com make absolutely no mention that it is affiliated with a chain of convenience stores? QuikTrip's website does have a link to toptiergas.com ( http://www.quiktrip.com/gasoline/toptier.asp ), but I find it interesting that toptiergas.com has no backlink to it's parent site.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2005, 07:17 AM
gonavy gonavy is offline
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Real Name: Bryan
Location: Severna Park, MD
Hybrids: HAH...waiting for the Fusion
Posts: 1,089
Default Re: Brand of gas makes a difference?

I wonder where you picked up that healthy sense of cynicism... maybe at a cold, dark fortress on an upstate riverbank?

You'll need it to avoid getting too excited over the prospect of winning the CinC trophy, 'cuz it ain't gonna happen!
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2005, 03:57 AM
David Harville David Harville is offline
Go Army!
 
Real Name: David Harville
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Hybrids: 2005 Prius
Posts: 178
Default Re: Brand of gas makes a difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonavy
I wonder where you picked up that healthy sense of cynicism... maybe at a cold, dark fortress on an upstate riverbank?
Some from there, some from being raised by a career Navy man.

As for the trophy, I'm more focused on UMass this weekend (as if it matters on whom I'm focused). They're "only" I-AA, but they're GOOD.
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