just curios, can someone educate me on hybrid cars compare to diesel engine cars???

thanks
JA Cambece

...Waits for Xcel...

First 4WD Hypermiler

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Just my two cents worth...

Diesel: They cost somewhat more than standard gasoline vehicles (but less than a hybrid) and they get somewhat better fuel economy than a standard gasoline vehicle of equivalent size and power (but less than a hybrid). The major downside to diesel is that the vehicle emmissions are much dirtier than gasoline-burning cars. There are plenty vehicle choices, but not every fuel station carries diesel. Future technology, such as "clean" diesel and "bio" diesel may make these vehicles pollute less.

Hybrid: They cost much more ($3-$5k more) than a standard gsoline-only vehicle (this is the only major downside to this choice). They get better mileage than a diesel, and significantly better mileage than a conventional car (example: standard Civic gets about 30-33 MPG, but the hybrid Civic gets 45-50 MPG). Hybrids are very clean-burning (typically ULEV or PZEV rated). Tax breaks can offset part of the hybrid premium. Future technology, such as a breakthrough in high-density, lightweight batteries, may make these cars less expensive.

I'm sure you'll get lots of opinions, however!

Bottom line: If you simply want to consume less fuel (always a noble goal), diesel is okay. If you want to consume less fuel AND pollute less, hybrid technology is the way to go.

You are not likely to get an unbiased opinion from a hybrid or diesel site. We both tend to favor our own choices.

I like to keep an open mind and will attempt to be as fair as possible.

Diesel advantages:
good mileage
great low rpm torque
no ignition tune ups required
fairly simple engine, should be reliable in the long term

Diesel disadvantages:

higer price for fuel
more polution (should get better with low sulfer fuel)
not good in really cold climates (fuel gels)

Hybrid advantages:

good to great mileage depending on model
low to very,very low polution
lower fuel price
very smooth starts

Hybrid disadvantages:

NONE! (just kidding)
big battery will eventually need replaced
can not trailer or limited towing available
also not so good in cold, batts lose efficiency
somewhat more complicated so may be less reliable in the long run


Notice several of the hybrid disadvantages do not apply in the short term but might over time. Even if you plan to trade before pontential trouble starts resale might be lower. They are really too new to tell for sure.

AshenGrey

Nice post, you beat me to it! Well said.

Diesel Advantages:

Simpler engine design means less to fail
Lots of low end torque
Fuel economy gains more than offset higher fuel price compared to non hybrid cars.
Heavier duty design requirements from internal stresses result in much longer lived engine.
Lower HC, CO, and CO2 emissions than conventional gasoline engine.
Particulate emissions not as harmful as invisible particulates emitted by gasoline engines (not that you want to inhale them anyway).

Disadvantages:

Sluggish engine response to throttle makes diesels inherently slower than gasoline engines.
Few choices for diesel powered passenger cars force purchasing of vehicles with dubious reliability history.
Higher NOx and particulate emissions (ULSD fuel to mitigate this problem).
Diesel engines slow to warm up, making cabin colder longer.

Hybrid advantages:

Meets and sometimes exceeds diesel fuel economy
Lower cost of gasoline vs. diesel fuel
Priceless "cool" factor of full hybrid design, allowing driving with engine completely off.
Lower emissions than any technology on the road due to critical focus on same by designers.
Full hybrid "complexity" offset by elimination of starter, alternator, clutch, torque converter, transmission, power steering pump, etc.
Many state, federal, and in some cases, employer programs in place to offset added cost.

Hybrid disadvantages:

High initial cost makes long payoff if unable to utilize above mentioned programs.
More affected by environmental factors than non hybrid vehicles.
Batteries potential disposal problem despite companies setting up recycling programs as they cannot keep track of where wrecked vehicles end up.
Cool fuel economy computers make you irritate everyone else on the road while you play the "make the mileage go up game."

Hybrid cars can be sold in California.
But, diesel cars can't.

Ken@Japan

Same for New York, New Jersey, and whoever else uses the same set of rules as CARB. I think it's 5 states total, including California have effectively banned diesels.

Maybe the next question is the kind of vehicle you need? Commuter? Family vehicle? For city? For country?

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

Hi Feilsun:

___And my real world take … Lets compare a popular but similar VW Jetta TDI vs. the HCH-I and/or II for comparisons sake.

Price (MSRP) incl. dest.

05 HCH-I MT/CVT: $20,450/$21,450
06 HCH-II CVT: $22,400
06 VW Jetta TDI MT/Auto: $21,905/$22,980

Size (Passenger/Cargo in Cu.-Ft.):

HCH-I: 91/10
HCH-II: 91/10
VW Jetta TDI: 91/16

Smog based Emissions Score and ratings on HS/LS Fuel/Fed rating/CARB rating/CO2 emissions from EPA:

HCH-I: 9/9/Tier II-Bin2/PZEV/4.1 Tons
HCH-II: Should be the same once it is finally rated/3.9 Tons
VW Jetta TDI: 1/Not available for sale in the clean states/Tier II-Bin10/Not available for sale in the clean states/5.6 Tons

FE from EPA:

HCH-I w/ Stick and CVT: 45/51 and 47/48
HCH-II w/ CVT: 49/51
VW Jetta TDI w/ Stick and Auto: 36/41 and 35/42

Performance

Acceleration from 0 - 60 miles per hour:

HCH-I w/ Stick and CVT: ~ 11 and ~ 13 seconds from CR/MT/C&D/PM
HCH-II w/ CVT: ~ 11.0 seconds from CD
VW Jetta TDI w/ Stick and Auto: ~ 11 and ~ 12.5 seconds from PM

Braking from 60 to 0 miles per hour:

HCH-I w/ Stick and CVT: 133’ from CR/MT
HCH-II w/ CVT: ? but probably in between.
VW Jetta TDI w/ Stick and Auto: 122’ from PM

Reliability

HCH-I: Excellent
HCH-II: Unknown?
VW Jetta TDI: Average to Poor

___The Performance and size are very similar when looking at an 05 HCH-I w/ a stick vs. 06 HCH-II w/ a CVT vs. Jetta TDI w/ a stick. The Emissions of the TDI even on LS fuel is absolute atrocious by comparison. In the FE comparison, the 06 HCH-II gets the nod followed by the HCH-I in second with the TDI using either a stick or MT in a relatively distant third. Reliability? Not much sense in speaking about that one

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes