Since I do not own a Hybrid, but do own and drive an efficient VW TDI ... I have a question in regard to use of the 'heater.' One of the problems for the first 15 minutes in driving a TDI during cold weather is that they are slow to heat up. It is in part due to not wasting a significant amount of energy in the form of heat.

I imagine that Hybrids suffer the same problem. Small engines that are not heavily worked when driving around town would seem to me to have a similar problem?

The reason I ask is that there is a company in Detroit working on mechanical friction heating systems for small Europeon diesel that provide a ton more near instant heat than the current technique of adding a bunch of electrical glow plugs in the coolant. Would the market for small belt driven oiled friction heaters be marketable to the hybrid world?

--RichC --- "My Desultory Blog" & CinciTDI Club

My civic puts out ample heat and it gets darn cold here in the winter. It takes about 5 minutes or so for the engine to warm up. Some cars just use electric heaters until they warm up. And of course the old volkswagons used to use a gasoline heater .

So I don't know if such an idea would be very cost effective.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

My Honda kept me plenty warm this winter. I use the heater for about 15-20 minutes then turn it off and use whatever warm air comes out of the vent and I never once got cold. My commute is well over an hour and half long.

The Prius is first and foremost a SULEV vehicle, designed to minimize emissions. Minimizing fuel consumption is the second most important consideration. To achieve SULEV, heating of the catalytic converter, and various other bits and pieces including the O2 sensor, needs to occur as fast as possible. Accordingly, mileage is usually quite low for the first few minutes to heat rapidly. In addtion, the Prius has an electric heater to supplement cabin heating in cold climates, until the engine is warm enough. I'm not sure if other hybrids have this.

The bottom line is that I don't think there is a need for a friction heating device for the Prius. With the engine running more than usual for the first few minutes, the equivalent effects is created by charging the battery. Some people have suggested running the Prius in EV mode as much as possible just before shutdown, at the end of trips. That way, some of the energy 'burned' during warm up is used to charge the battery.

That's not a problem. It's a benefit of having an engine with near-50% efficiency. In my Beetle TDI, I just stay in 2nd gear to spin the engine faster until it's above-freezing, then shift to 4th. And I keep my warm coat & mittens on while driving. I'd rather have a cold engine that conserves energy, than a hot engine that wastes it!



And in my insight, I always have more heat than I want. The REAL problem is trying to keep cool (summer). It really hurts the MPGs.

troy

In Texas, being cool is more important.

This is the customization I'd like to reduce the load on the A/C:

...as I walk out to the parking lot after work on a summer afternoon. I press the button to unlock the doors about 50 yards away. The windows roll down, and canisters of compressed air blast out the heated summer air in seconds.

Get in the car, and turn the fan on that has an integrated mister to help chill without the A/C. Still might need the A/C in August, but this would still lighten the load.

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

I have plenty of heat in the winter in my insight. It is certainly not instant, though. Blocking the radiator is very important to help decrease the warm up time. It keeps the airflow from colling things down too much. Especially important when it's bleow zero.

Eric Powers

MHG Organizer - www.MadisonHybridGroup.com
Hybridfest 2008 - A Hybrid Electric Car Show and More! www.hybridfest.com
Madison, WI July 19 & 20, 2008

The Honda's provide heat in the exact same way that a normal car does. They circulate hot engine coolent into a heat exchanger inside the car. They provide as much heat as any other car.

The Prius is very advanced and does 2 things to get hot FASTER than a normal car. In order to heat the engine faster the Prius pumps the hot coolent into an insulated container when you shut it off to keep it hot for the next time you start the car. In addition it can supply electric heat, which is almost instant. I'm not entirely clear about how the electric part works. The main heat source is the hot engine coolent.

Great having all these interesting replies. The VW TDIs, as it is with many modern small high efficient diesels, heat slowly in cold winter weather. (AC is not a problem as the belt driven torque of a diesel provides plenty of power at idle ... but I can see how that could be bit deal when trying to maximize summer urban driving in a Hybrid.)

The VW TDI 1.9 diesel will almost not even heat the water enough in the winter at idle ... it runs that cool. (although in normal driving heat is not a problem ... but it does heat up slower than a gasoline engine) The VW engineers have done the same as the Prius in placing electrically heated 'glowplugs' in the recirculating coolant system that is designed to provide additional instant heat. Unfortunately even placing 3 of these in the coolant, they do not heat the water up very quickly. If the engine block is a hunk of - 0 degrees steel it takes a while to get everything warm. Longer than is comfortable on a cold dark winter morning. (thank goodness for heated seats!)

My thinking was that hybrids heavily using the electrical power for initial driving power and that they would suffer the same slow coolant tempertures in the colder weather ... obviously if their are not many complaints ... it is not a problem?

The Ventech small supplemental belt driven heaters that will be introduced next year are showing an instant 5KW+ at idle and do not burden the electrical system. I think these will make a great option in providing quick heat. In 90 seconds they are able to raise the temps 100 degrees. I'm trying to see if an after market kit can be produced for use on our TDIs and have had lukewarm success in trying to engineer this. Any thoughts?

--RichC --- "My Desultory Blog" & CinciTDI Club

I'm lazy. I'd rather sit in a hot car, than have the daily hassle of refilling canisters & water misters.

I just keep my windows rolled down, so the hot air can escape. Also, when I was interviewing with Compaq, I noticed they provide roofed parking for their employees.... keeps them nice and cool.

troy