As for the folks claiming false advertising, I can understand their frustration to some extent. The media and others we should be able to trust seem to say whatever they want about these cars and pretend it's true. I was listening to NPR the other day and our congressman was talking about the hybrid cars and how they get double the mileage of their standard counterparts and so on. With people out there promising ridiculous expectations like that it's no wonder people are upset when they buy a HCH find that it only gets 20% better mileage than a standard civic. It's not a miracle, but it is a nice improvement. Selling it as a miracle can only disapoint everyone involved.

Maybe it would be a good idea not to mention Barb and her posts in fear of jinxing this forum.....just imagine if she found her way here.

I try not to

It's hard to determine if she is looking to be sincere in protecting other lives through her ordeal or rallying support of the forum to back her lawsuit (or lack there of).

According to her last posts, she gave back the car but I doubt this will be the end of her postings at Edmunds (the making of a good horror film). I feel more for the people at that forum.

Well, that's not entirely false. I get 263% the fuel economy over a standard Escape. It depends on the model. Not all hybrids get that kind of a result, but not all hybrids only get 20% better either.

First 4WD Hypermiler

Have you read the FEH FAQ?

Live in Michigan? Let it be known in Michigan Roll Call

Read My Automotive Blog at Rich Rambles

Well I think it's only fair to compare mileage if you're comparing similar driving styles. If you're doing hypermileage techniques to get 263% better than standard driving techniques in an escape then it's not a fair comparison because if you drove a standard escape with hypermileage techniques appropriate to that vehicle you'd also see a significant improvement. Perhaps not as dramatic, but the point is that you can improve mileage in any car with driving technique, regardless of whether you put hybrid technology in it.

I calculated my 20% figure by driving a regular civic 1500 miles and did the same over the same route in a HCH with the same driving style and there was a 20% difference. That's the only fair way to make a comparison IMHO.

zimbop, I agree with your point that a similar car and driving conditions are required to make any valid statement regarding the hybrid advantage. Yet even evening out these differences is not by any means the entire story. Percent of city driving, non-hybrid base engine efficiency, specific hybrid powertrain, and driving habits more suitable to one powertrain than another all affect the end result.

So it is not 20%, or 260%. The answer is a range. Rather like the EPA
I know people want one unique number to go by, but reality is more complicated than that.

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

While you don't know me, if you did, you'd know if that was a factor, I would've mentioned it. If I drive like the car is fueled by my own blood, and another drives it like it runs on tap water, I certainly would've mentioned it.

My friend, whose Escape I'm comparing it to in this case, has a V8 2004 model, and after I teased him for a few weeks about how great my MPGs were, he adopted several of the good habits, not driving over 70, coasting as much as possible, etc. (Though I thought he'd punch me out instead. ) We share 75% or so of the commute, and he was still getting 14 MPGs to my (at that point) 32 MPG.

He gave up the habits and is back to getting 12 MPGs, feeling that driving like a granny is not worth the 2 MPG difference.

First 4WD Hypermiler

Have you read the FEH FAQ?

Live in Michigan? Let it be known in Michigan Roll Call

Read My Automotive Blog at Rich Rambles

That's a very good improvement indeed. I hope they keep making cars capable of this rather than focusing on retaining all the muscle of the original vehicle. That's what angers me the most is that they don't think we can live without a 6 second 0-60. Take the jeep liberty for example, they put a diesel in it (finally something practical with a diesel in it!) but it's freaking 250 hp! Yeah 30 mpg, could have gotten 40 or more with a reasonable engine in there.

Yes, of course it's more complicated than that, but the way of the world is that they need a quick soundbite. My point was really that if they used a more reasonable figure in those statements people wouldn't get such false hopes. If you quote the highest number you've ever heard of for mileage on a car, then hardly anyone is going to get those results and nearly everyone will be disapointed. While some people are going to get twice the mileage of a standard version, most people arent, so quoting it that way is just asking for disappointment. I don't think I'm that far off here, the mileage database doesn't seem to show that you should expect double mileage from any of the vehicles with standard counterparts.

Thanks to everybody for their comments and commmiserations. I guess I'm not entirely crazy yet. At least, on this basis alone.

Aha, finally a piece of useful information in my 'hybrid seat' discussion, compared to what I experienced elsewhere! I personally have sat in both seats also, and did not notice a difference, but it was only for a short time. Plus, I'm narrow like the seats, so I'm not sure I would have noticed that characteristic.

Maybe it's the model year, as you suggest. Either way, it is very refreshing to talk about this with somebody who understands the basic point (hybrid issue versus not a hybrid issue), even while disagreeing with my possibly faulty initial data (hybrid seats are the same as non-hybrid).

Hey, if they are indeed bolstered more on the sides, maybe they are that way in order to keep all of the hypermilers in their seats, as they take city street corners at 35mph in order to conserve momentum.

LOL. :-)