I think that is BS. I insure through AMEX in NM, and pay $520/yearly for a 100/500K, $1k deductible for comp and collision.

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

Yeah well I pay $440 every six months now, I was paying $320 on my 94 Oldsmobile Achieva. But I agree. Total BS.
Also note that I'm over 25, Have never had a ticket or an at fault accident. I've always had insurance, and I have other policies with State Farm. Oh well.

I've had my Prius for a month and I have already seen a huge impact in what my monthly fuel costs will be. Right now it is at least half, and I've almost doubled my miles driven due to holiday trips and "show the car off" trips. And my mileage isn't all that great due to the car being tight and the weather being very poor (well poor by Eastern Washington standards). But then again, I didn't try to justify this purchase entirely through lower fuel costs, but because I really liked the car as an entire package.

It has been said:
Hybrid drivers come in 3 flavors, greenie, techie and cheapie. Pick any 2.
2005 Prius, Melinium Silver over gray, package 5 (AI)

your math is flawed

10.00 vs 60.00 is a 1/6 ratio

thus if a prius gets 50 mpg then the gas hog he replaced gets 8.333 mpg

even a old suburban with a 454 gets 10 mpg or more.


Prius at 48 mpg according to this website vs midsize (accord) car that gets 1/2 or 24 mpg with a cost of 1.80/gallon for fuel.

cost difference 2,000 - 3,000 would come to the following math

15,000 per yr driving

Prius = 312 gallons*1.80 = $562.5/yr
Accord = 624 gallons*1.80 = $1125/yr

or 562.5 diff thus $2,000/562.5=3.55 yrs or $3,000/562.5 = 5.33 yrs

till you break even just on gas savings.

Ok i honestly hope you aren't saying my math is flawed. Besides the 54 weeks in a year which should be 52 weeks, I don't see how its wrong. For one, we don't know if its an old suburban and we definately do not know if its an Accord. I was commenting on how contradictory the article was in stating that a Prius owner paid 10 dollars a week while his neighbor paid 60, yet it states that you would not save enough money to pay off the hybrid "premium" for however many years it stated. Now if it specified a car such as the Accord, it would be a different story. But still, 5.33 or 3.55 does not compare to the 10 years stated by the article.

In response to your arguement, I say we don't know if his prius was getting 50 mpg so it would not be fair to say that his neighbor was only getting 8.33 mpg and is not possible. (i assume that you are arguing its not possible since "even a old suburban with a 454 gets 10 mpg or more"). Another thing not considered would be the cost of premium compared to the cost of the regular which the Prius uses. If his neighbor uses Premium, that would mean that he is buying a lesser amount of fuel. Thus the ratio creates fuzzy math to compute for mpg.

A Prius a day keeps the doctor away!

While the article is clearly not quite right, a hybrid is still not that great of an investment. The HCH is a perfect example because it comes in a non-hybrid version making for a nice apples to apples comparison. Because the regular Civic is popular it sells for around $13,000 to $16,000 while the hybrid is around $19,000 or $20,000. The non-hybrid civic is rated at 32/38 while the hybrid is rated 46/51. Lets use all the best possible numbers (in favor of the hybrid) and see what we get:

Regular Civic
$16,000
32mpg

Hybrid Civic
$19,000
51mpg

The difference in purchase price is $3,000. At 15,000 miles a year with gas at $2.00 Costs are:

Civic $937.50
HCH $588.24

For a difference of: $349.26 a year. It would take about 8.5 years to make up your $3k best case.

Making it even worse, you will need to buy an expensive battery pack someday in the hybrid.


Now all that said, I still bought an HCH and I love it.

The jury's still out on the battery pack. I also worry about it being expensive to replace though.

At least your brakes in the hybrid will probably last twice as long.

Besides the fact that it is good for the environment, I also enjoy how quiet the hybrid is. That is worth a few hundred in my opinion, as is having auto climate control and better interior trim/display + spoiler + nicer wheel rims.

And of course there is the tax deduction which might amount to $500.

So if the battery pack does indeed cost $2000 every 100K miles then the hybrid was a poor investment, but if it doesn't then you might argue that the spread is worth it....

Part of my point is that it not fair to compare an Insight to a Suburban, apples to oranges. On the drive home I realized that there is another perfect apples to apples comparison between the Escape versions. This one is a bit tricky because it comes in several trim lines that I'm not directly familiar with. Lets use the 2 wheel drive versions to keep it simple.

Escape xls 2.3L
24/29 for 26.5 combined mpg
mspr $20k

Limited 3L
20/25 for 22.5 combined mpg
msrp $25k

Hybrid
36/31 for 33.5 combined mpg
msrp $27k

Again assuming 15k miles a year, $2.00 gas and combined EPG ratings:

Hybrid $895.52 yearly gas cost
Limited $1333.33
xls $1132.08

Hybrid vs limited, $2k difference in price, $437.81 per year savings, 4.5 year payback. Not bad.

Hybrid vs xls, $7k difference in price, $236.53 per year savings, 29.5 year payback!!

Sorry I don't know how the standard features compare on the different models.

My Ford Escape Hybrid will cost the extra $3,000 over a V6 equipped the same way. It replaces an intermediate size SUV that gets 18 mpg. I will get a $2,000 income savings when computing my 2005 taxes for about $500.
That leaves $2,500 to be offset with fuel and maintenance savings. 10,000 miles a year and $2.00 gas will save me 275 gallons or $550 a year (plus another $50 in maintenance cost - 10,000 mile service intervals).

Payback in 4.2 years.

Plus, if I decide to trade it in before then (which I always do), it should retain a higher % of it's original cost than a non-hybrid. The battery, motor and transmission have long term warranties, which will enhance the desirability of the units, even used.

The bragging rights alone are worth the extra cost.

Red

Lakedude, you mentioned that a regualr Civic costs $16,000 @ 32mpg and the Hybrid Civic is $19,000 @ 51mpg, but didn't explain any differences, and a casual reader might think there are none.
You mention that Civics sell for $13-16K but dealer stickers I've seen are $15-20K range.

I agree if one is looking for the best mile-for-dollar car then a hybrid may not be their best choice, one of these may be more financially sound:
Hyundai Accent $9,900 @ 33MPG
Toyota Echo $10,300 @ 40MPG
Chevrolet Cavalier $10,800 @ 36MPG
Saturn Ion $11,900 @ 29MPG
Pontiac Sunfire $11,460 @ 36MPG
Kia Riocinco $12,000 @ 33MPG

We get what we pay for: these are all base models: manual locks, roll up windows, etc, which brings me to my point- although the base Civic LX is about $15,500 and carries the same frame as the HCH, the trim level is very different.
The closest trim level to the HCH is the EX. These are a few things which the HCH offers over an EX, then what the EX has that the HCH doesn't;

http://automobiles.honda.com/
Honda cars shows the base EX MSRP at $17,660.
Base for the HCH is $19,500, about $2k difference. Let's build an EX that includes:

MT with front/side bags $17,660
Splash guards $94
Rear spoiler $499
Fenderwell Trim $89
No carpeted mats are available for the EX, but
are available for the Accord for $79.

Total MSRP for that EX is $18,615...still about $1k more for the HCH.
I don't doubt that one can get a better deal on a new, same EX but you'll still be missing:

ABS
EBD
EX does not have the added sound dampening items built exclusively into the HCH body frame and panels.
Trim package is similar but not the same, specifically the front clip and the rear area.
More things:
Automatic climate control
Special instrument panel
Heat rejecting glass
IMA system (Motor, Casings, Controllers, Battery, Gauges, etc)
LRR Tires
Exclusive alloy rims
CVT
Advanced cylinder management
Easy to read MPG meter w/2 trip meters
HOV lane access in some states
+60MPG capability
Enrollment in the Accademy of the Efficient Driving School
MPG bragging rights & Hybrid knowledge (I love this one)

What items don't you get on an HCH that you do get on an EX?
2 items: Moon roof and folding rear seat.

I'd love to see if they can make a bare-bones hybrid and sell it cheaply. Roll-up windows, etc. Maybe they can't and made up for it by creating an extra fancy model.

As we know a DX isn't an LX which isn't an EX and these are not an HCH. Don't look for any magazine articles to point that out though.
They all just say the HCH is more expensive.
Personally speaking, a non-hybrid car would have been "just another car" to me and I wouldn't have taken the time to drive for efficiency. Guaranteed I wouldn't ever see the Civic's 32MPG, realistically about 25. I don't know of anyone getting the 32 in their Civic's but I'm sure some do.

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT