I could nit pick it even more but its just marketing BS. All that does is make the consumer pay more for things you don't really need.

too bad they don't make a nice LX trimmed hybrid version for a reasonable price 21K isn't horrible but 17K would be nice for a civic LX hybrid in a 5speed.

its a start

Hi All:

___There are a few items not brought up in this debate of sorts …

___The Civic EX w/ a stick is a $15,500 car vs. $18,500 for the HCH w/ a stick in and around my area. Besides the sunroof and fold down rear seats, there are also 15” alloys vs. 14’s, and almost 3 more cu. ft. of trunk space. The EX loses some interior volume due to the sunroof but if your head doesn’t touch the headliner which it will not, you have lost nothing. The EX also includes ABS and EBFD.

0 - 60: EX w/ manual: 8.8 - 9.4 seconds - HCH w/ manual: 11.5 - 12.5 seconds

Real world year round FE w/ this hypermiler behind the windscreen:
EX w/ manual: ~ 44 mpg
HCH w/ manual: ~ 60 mpg

Cornering and handling advantage: EX

Longevity advantage: EX

Lower dB drone at higher speeds advantage: HCH (3,000 RPM @ 80 mph vs. EX’s 4,000 RPM’s @ 80 mph)

___Hybrid’s are no panacea but they have their place for us long distance commuters in particular …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

xcel: All good points to consider and I stand corrected on the EBD and ABS.
It's really amazing how expensive Civics are going for around here.

iboomalot:
I have a couple of comments;
Auto climate control automatically keeps the cabin at a set temperature and has nothing to do with the hybrid battery. It's also available on many regualr cars.

I think Honda lists it as "Blue Lit" or similar and it really does look nicer than other Civic's.

I'm not sure if heat rejecting tinted glass has the same technical specs as regular tinted glass. I do know they look different. Without any data on this I assume that it has extra resistance to solar heat passed into the cabin. Given this, EX windows are only tinted.

Alloy rims... The key word there was exclusive.

CVT...This offers several advantages. It can adjust to the exact ratio to provide maximum MPG conditions, vs a std 5 spd auto which shifts 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc. It is also much smoother. I'm not sure why this would be more expensive to replace, it also has less mechanical components than a traditional AT.
What a consumer really needs or wants is subject to the individual.
To illustrate, a person really doesn't need anything a base Civic DX has when a nice, new Hyundai Accent can be had for under $10,000.
Especially so with a $17,000 EX.

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT

exclusive BFD EX has "exclusive" rims too

I bet if I wanted I could steal a set of those "exclusive" hybrid rims and then they wouldn't be exclusive LOL

you are trying to add value by spinning the facts just like any marketing firm does to increase value at the expense of the consumer.

by the way the window tint on the hybrid is green tinted.

I also used to work/sell tint and they all reject heat and UV so its nothing special unless you like to make it sound important.

its a nice car thats slow and gets great MPG with many extras that you pay for. end of story.

My CVT accelerates in about 10 seconds from 0-60. Last week I was watching a car "Magazine" doing reviews on TV. I remember they were testing a new Subaru and it tested about 10, which they listed as good acceleration, along with other cars.

You are right, the HCH gets good MPG with expensive extras.

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT

10 secs is slow but faster than I thought I was thinking more like 12secs

glad to hear yours goes that fast my Jetta TDI is a slow turd and does about the same 0-60 in 10 sec too but 42 city 49 hwy is nice.

I can't wait to put in a chip and some nozzles and bump my crappy 90 fwhp and 155 tq to 135 fwhp and 220 lbs of torque and still keep my 40 mpg efficency.

in 6 months our area is getting biodiesel I can't wait.


no the HCH gets great MPG


***edit***

if I had the choice I would like to see a CDC diesel motor running on biodiesel with electric assist.

that would be about as green as it comes and would get 80 mpg and have POWER and torque for larger vehicles.

Hi Hot_Georgia_2004:

___The CVT based HCH is slower to 60 by ~ 1 second vs. the manual …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

just some interesting reading material

http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/emissions.pdf

and

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005...uos_clean.html


couple those two idea + hybrid and the world would be a better place or atleast the USA.

Thanks for the additions to my comparisons. The Civic one was off the cuff and the prices were "real world" not msrp. I've not seen regular Civics advertised for over $16,000 reguardless of trim level. Part of the point was that I think you are more likely to get a deal on a non-hybrid as they are more common.

I'm not sure if the HCH is most like the LX or the EX. It is not exactly like either one. First thing on the list is that the HCH has 14" wheels which is actually like the DX as the LX and EX have 15" wheels. But then the HCH has alloy wheels like the EX. Only the EX gets a tilting moonroof. The HCH and EX have colored mirrors while the LX's are black. The HCH and EX have variable wipers while the LX gets 2 speed. The EX is the only one to get cup holders in the back. The HCH and EX get antilock. The engine is of course different between the LX and the EX and the HCH. How could I miss this one? Only the HCH gets climate control.

Well that is the list, to me the moonroof, bigger wheels, and rear cupholders put the EX at the highest trim level. The HCH is very close second with all the EX features except the 3 just mentioned plus exclusive climate control. The LX is third lackin the moonroof and rear cupholders while gaining 15" wheels (over the HCH) but also lacking ABS, alloy wheels, colored mirrors, and variable wipers. The DX is clearly not in the running lacking too many features to list.

Does this fix my previous omissions? Opps found more differences...Well I'm not counting any of the engine stuff or anything that make a hybrid a hybrid.

You lose folding rear seats to the battery pack on the HCH. All the other Civics including the DX have folding rear seats.

Drat still more differences. Well buyer beware there are differences, heck just get an HCH you will love it!

HG mentioned several HCH features I'd like to comment on.

The climate control is a very nice feature that I've been luckey enough to have on my last 4 cars. It is a feature I've paid several hundred dollars more for as an option. You have a thermostat in your house, don't you? Why not one in the car as well?

Most of the rest of the HCH features HG mentioned are part of what make a hybrid a hybrid. For example you are not going to have a hybrid battery charge gauge on a non hybrid car. It is cool to mention them as features but I chose not to in order to keep things simpler.

The rear spoiler at $500? Would you give that much for it? I'll sell you mine for $400. Adding parts at full retail is not fair. If you put an EX together from scratch using new parts at retail, I bet it would cost $50k.

BTW what is fenderwell trim?