(I wasn't sure where to post this, maybe I should have put it on the FEH board, or the Prius board... mods can decide...)

Well, I finally got to drive a Prius yesterday, and it was awesome ! I am SO psyched that I am first on the waiting list for after 1/1/06. As proud owner of a FEH (which I do love, it's been everything I expected and more) since April '05, what struck me about the Prius (aside from the obvious, the size difference and more "bells and whistles" on the high-end Prius that was available to test drive) was (1) the smoothness and silence that marks changes in power path (i.e., when the ICE turns on and off), and (2) its apparently much less conservative use of "EV-only" mode (ICE off). It just shuts off ALL the time (compared to the FEH - see numerous threads on that board about "why won't ICE cut off" etc.)

The Prius is just a fantastic, wonderful car, even worth giving up 4WD (I'm a little trepidatious about the snow)! And the "star trek"-like attributes ("smart key" system, dashboard layout with the display WAY out there, controls on the steering wheel) just add to the overall coolness.

I urge anyone (particularly FEH drivers) who hasn't driven a Prius, to give it a try, just for the fun of it.

Hi Sweetbeet:

___Good comparison/write up. Since you know how to hypermile your FEH, you will be surprised at how similar the Prius II and the FEH are to one another in that regard. You will also have a leg up vs. a newbie once your Prius II arrives … Cold temp driving not withstanding of course

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

I think the raport among FEH and Prius drivers is strong.

I had an experience basically the reverse of Sweetbeet's.

In having some work done on my house, the supervisor drove up in his Prius. I pointed to my FEH and after some discussion, we decided each to take the other's vehicle for a short spin.

The Prius was nice as Sweetbeet reports. I did get a feeling of claustrophobia in it, but I do that in most "small" cars (being 6' 4" and 200+). The supervisor after completing his ride in my car made some remarks about how his next car might be an FEH.

I agree that the FEH does tend to be more biased toward the ICE. I'm not sure of the reason for that, unless maybe because it is a bigger vehicle. I'd like to see what would happen if it were adjusted to favor EV a little more.

Both vehicles are excellent. I'm glad that the FEH and the Prius are not competing directly with each other, since that would hurt both and the market is there for different types of vehicles.

'06 FEH 2WD "Sainte Marie"

I agree wholeheartedly (as my imminent ownership of one of each is about to attest...).

I do think some misinformation is being given out by the Toyota dealer I visited, however - I asked "why would anyone buy a Prius NOW, with the tax credit available for waiting just over a month?" and was given a line about how the tax CREDIT only benefits someone who owes money to the IRS (as opposed to someone who is getting a refund of a portion of the amount withheld, not someone with NO tax liability at all), but the DEDUCTION (2005) benefits everyone. That is just plain wrong! (1) a DEDUCTION benefits anyone who would otherwise have a tax liability, whether some or all of that amount has been withheld, but (2) a CREDIT also benefits anyone with a tax liability (even if less than the amount withheld, i.e., a refund situation - it merely increases the amount to be refunded), and MAY (depending on the particulars of the law) also benefit those with NO tax liability! Some people who have had NOTHING withheld, and owe no tax, may get money from the IRS if they qualify for certain credits (in NY, I think the Property Tax credit works that way, the Federal EIC may also).

So this guy was BSing people into buying the few cars he has coming in in Nov. and Dec. that aren't "spoken for", by telling them that they would benefit from the deduction but not the credit, when if there is a difference at all it would be the reverse.

As I see it, the only benefits of buying now are (1) lower price for '05 models - hmmmm, I wonder if that offsets the difference between the deduction and the credit, on the other hand a later model year will probably have better resale value at any given time in the future; (2) you get your tax benefit a year earlier (in early '06, instead of '07 when the '06 tax returns are filed), IF it benefits you at all (if your income is already so low that you owe NO taxes at all, then a deduction - reduction in taxable income - is of NO benefit); and (3) you get your car NOW (like, if you NEED to get one now and can't wait, a situation I was once in, years ago).

Car salesmen will say ANYTHING to get a sale...sometimes it borders on criminal.....This one is just sad.....

Salespersons can - and frequently do - say whatever they feel the customer will believe to make a sale.

But also, they do not know everything and frequently misinterpret the knowledge they do have. (Isn't it strange how often they misinterpret things to their advantage?)

I visited three dealerships before finding a salesperson who I felt comfortable with. In our initial conversation, he said "I don't know a lot about hybrids, but I can find the answer to any question you have." That was the right thing to say.

'06 FEH 2WD "Sainte Marie"

Good points, and that was indeed a good thing for the salesperson to tell you. Anyone selling hybrids should be TRAINED to know all the details of anything that might come up, including the tax info, the recall, etc. At least print out a news story and have that on hand to give to the potential buyer, just so you'll have something to provide.

definitely true...different cars for different people. i test drove a prius several times in 2000, as that was my "runner-up" car to my eventual ICE escape purchase. i just liked having a bigger car with 4x4 capabilities, and it was comfy for road trips with several people and a week's worth of luggage.

i love my FEH so far but i do admit to a bit of jealousy with prius/insight FE

courtney | cork@bluemarble.net

Ideally, yes. In fact, sales representatives have a lot of different models and options to keep track of. It would be nice to have them know all about hybrids, but is probably not practical. I'll take honesty and a willingness to listen over someone who is full of it (that is, knowledge) any day.

The sales reps at all three dealerships gave me the same rote spiel about the higher cost and higher city mileage than highway of the FEH. Ford has stressed to their dealerships that this is necessary. But it seemed to be more formula than informative. (I think Ford misread their hybrid customers on this, at least on the first round of sales.)

'06 FEH 2WD "Sainte Marie"