My wife drove the Prius one day and killed the running fuel economy.

It's back to hypermiling for me, to get the average mpg back where it belongs!

No more jack-rabbit starts for a while.

By the way, an ocasional burst of speed from a Prius goes a long way towards dispelling the myth that many people have that hybrids are slow.

Harry

President Bush on Global Warming:

http://www.glumbert.com:80/media/globalwarming

I'm going to touch on racing in general. We have seen countless drivers speeding to an intersection....for a longer wait at the red light. People will blast down the freeway ramps, pouring a lot of gas....sometimes the traffic forces them to slow down considerably....I could list other examples but this stuff happens all the time.

There is a mob mentality to speeding....the more that do it, the more that feel they have to do it to feel safe - actually the truth is to avoid losing face being left behind. Fifteen years ago during my aggressive driving days, I noticed a road I'd take considerably slower when it was not during rush hour - nobody to "compete" with. This is part of the reason in other threads I don't suport going with the flow over the speed limit - it encourages them to push it higher and higher.

If we are honest, a lot of the speeding is competition, not actually being in a hurry.

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

I think the wife's error in driving the Prius is not letting it coast enough, not anticipating stops.

This sort of thing fits into the way I drove before I got the Prius. On a road like the Long Island Expressway, I would watch people drive mindlessly, zooming forward to keep up with traffic, and then slamming on their brakes. Not only was it wasteful, it was dangerous! I would always conciously counter that "rubber band" effect. I would accelerate a little less, letting some space form ahead of me. I would anticipate traffic bunching up, and let off the gas and slow ahead of time to avoid having to slow suddenly. At the time, I was doing it for safety reasons. Now I do it for safety reasons and fuel economy.

Harry

President Bush on Global Warming:

http://www.glumbert.com:80/media/globalwarming

Typically, they are for hauling people and stuff. As several have pointed out, SUVs were pretty much non-existent 25 years ago. They've been present for quite some time as a niche / utilitarian product. (Trivia alert....The Chevy HHR is designed to reflect the design cues of the 1949 Chevrolet Suburban) They were pretty much confined to industrial and trade work duty. Let's face it, early SUVs were built on truck frames and rode like trucks. ROUGH! As automotive technology improved and chassis systems became more sophisticated, the overall ride quality of trucks improved dramatically. Trucks were no longer relegated to workhorse duty. People actually started buying pickups and parking them in their garages. The SUV then quickly emerged as the logical replacement to the "socially uncool" minivan as a people hauler. Why do we see so many mid-30's women driving all by their lonesome in big SUVs? Sometimes it's because they just dropped a bunch of kids off somewhere. Also, how would you, the driver in the next lane, know what else is in the SUV? I have a neighbor who operates a dog care / dog grooming business. Most of the time her GMC Denali is occupied by her and who knows how many dogs. My wife also operates a business. Her Trailblazer is used to pick up supplies and deliver finished goods. I will assure you that some of her finished goods CANNOT be delivered in a Prius because they need to stand upright in a tall vehicle. If you drove past her you might easily decide that she's another arrogant conspicuous consumer flaunting her symbol of prestige & performance. Nope. She's out doing her job and demonstrating the "U" in SUV.

The SUV came first. The profits second. Since SUVs are still for the most part truck based, and since pickup trucks long ago passed cars in sales / nameplate, economies of scale made development and manufacture of SUVs a little less costly. Less cost plus the ability to get a higher price equals more profit. There's nothing wrong with that.

Towing alone does not define an SUV. If you want to tow something, typically a pick up truck is a better option. Both pickups and SUVs are also designed to haul things. Again, a pickup is usually your better option when you want to haul. An SUV is typically the best compromise between the towing and hauling capabilities of a pickup truck and the comfort and convenience of a large car. In Michigan, if you register a small or mid-sized SUV, your registration will define it as a "Station Wagon". When's the last time a US car maker made a real station wagon? Right before the big SUV boom. Station wagons (people haulers) were replaced almost 100% by minivans (7 or 8 passenger seating) and SUVs (5 -8 passenger seating)

I guess it all depends on your perspective of handling. If it's time through a slalom course and cornering G-forces, leave the SUV home. You're much better off with a short wheelbase car with fast ratio steering. If it's getting from church to grandma's in driving rain or a snowstorm, slap that SUV into Auto-AWD and move along. Fuel economy? Hard to cheat the laws of physics. Things that are bigger, heavier, and aerodynamically challenged tend to get worse fuel economy than those that are not. But let's face it, people usually have a decent amount of information (ie -FE Sticker) available to them when they make their choices. The economics of higher gasoline prices will continue to influence those choices in favor of more fuel efficient vehicles or force manufacturers to make more fuel efficient SUVs and Crossover vehicles for people who really do need to haul people and stuff..

Peace,

Martin

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

Actually Chrysler has begun making station wagons again. They are not called station wagons, but that is what they are. I think they are mostly in their chrysler lineup, not sure if dodge has a version.

But, the europeans have always had station wagons and never did let them die. Look at BMW, Mercedes, AUDI, etc...

Great reply, loved those in particular.


Great response as well.

Beating an SUV off the line in a Prius seems like a rather anti-Prius thing to do. I believe that would be a sign of SUV-envy.

First 4WD Hypermiler

Have you read the FEH FAQ?

Live in Michigan? Let it be known in Michigan Roll Call

Read My Automotive Blog at Rich Rambles

Picture of 1936 Chevy Suburban.

Does it seem like these were in gangster movies? Maybe they had "bling-bling" even back them (could get slapped for that remark).

A resonable progression IMHO would be CUVs - medium and small SUV's without the off-roading capability that is seldom used, but more practical than a station wagon.

Some of you know I had my Insight battery pack replaced at 94,000 miles. Several things factored into that - software needed tweaking badly, 5-speeds can be driven in a way it drains the battery pack more.....not letting a black Suburban pass me on Hwy 287 couple of years ago was a bad idea. Cruised at 95mph over 100 miles and had 2-3 recals. Certainly more severe than racing a mile, but these days I want to make sure the other guy beats me to the repair shop.

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

The Dodge Magnum. The industry is kind of schizophrenic as to what they really are. They are typically used as a stretch hot-rod. They have the capability for people and grocery hauling, but that doesn't fit with the demographic of its customer base.

You are absolutely right! Narrow streets from centuries old infra-structure, waaay over $5 / gallon gas, and taxation (in some countries) of vehicles with over 3.0L engines triangulate to ask "do you reaaaalllly want that 6.0L H2?"

Now, go to Saudi Arabia and you'll find all the Suburbans, H2s, and Escalades that won't sell in Europe.

Peace,

Martin

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

If I ever get the chance to roll up next to some hot shot Prius owner at a light, I will challenge them to see who can get to the next light last.....

If Jeep ever produced a hybrid cherokee (patriot) I would have to get one.

Here is a list of 0-60 MPH acceleration times for 97 current model SUVs. The slowest SUV is almost a full second faster to 60 mph than the Prius. Also note that the large SUV's are typically the fastest as a group.

You may beat someone by the element of surprise (oh.. we're racing?) or more likely, the SUV driver doesn't even clue into your Prius's moderate acceleration as a race as you pull away from the light.

You have every one of those vehicles beat with MPG - why focus on a performance characteristic that the Prius obviously deemphasizes?






1 Infinity FX45 – 5.5 sec
2 Mercedes-Benz GL450 – 6.0 sec
3 Acura MDX – 6.1 sec
4 Chevy Trailblazer – 6.2 sec
5 Infinity FX35 – 6.2 sec
6 Buick Rainier – 6.2 sec
7 GMC envoy – 6.2 sec
8 Isuzu Ascender – 6.2 sec
9 Lexus RX 350 – 6.2 sec
10 Mercedes-Benz ML500 – 6.3 sec
11 Chevy Suburban 2500 – 6.3 sec
12 GMC Yukon XL 2500 – 6.3 sec
13 Mercedes-Benz R500 – 6.4 sec
14 Ford Edge – 6.5 sec
15 Infinity QX56 – 6.5 sec
16 Nissan Armada – 6.5 sec
17 Saab 9-7x – 6.5 sec
18 Porsche Cayenne – 6.6 sec
19 BMW X3 – 6.6 sec
20 Lincoln MKX – 6.7 sec
21 Nissan Xterra – 6.7 sec
22 Kia Sorento – 6.7 sec
23 Suzuki XL7 – 6.7 sec
24 Chevy Suburban 1500 – 6.7 sec
25 GMC Yukon XL 1500 – 6.7 sec
26 Hyundai Veracruz – 6.8 sec
27 Mazda CX-9 – 6.8 sec
28 Nissan Pathfinder – 6.8 sec
29 Chevy Avalanche 1500 – 6.8 sec
30 Land Rover Range Rover – 6.9 sec
31 GMC Acadia – 6.9 sec
32 Nissan Murano – 6.9 sec
33 Cadillac SRX – 6.9 sec
34 Acura RDX – 7.0 sec
35 Buick Enclave – 7.0 sec
36 Chevy Tahoe – 7.0 sec
37 GMC Yukon – 7.0 sec
38 Saturn Outlook – 7.0 sec
39 Audi Q7 – 7.1 sec
40 Subaru B9 Tribeca – 7.1 sec
41 Toyota FJ Cruiser – 7.1 sec
42 Ford Expedition – 7.1 sec
43 Honda Pilot – 7.2 sec
44 Mercedes-Benz G500 – 7.2 sec
45 Mercedes-Benz R350 – 7.2 sec
46 Volkswagen Touareg – 7.2 sec
47 Toyota 4Runner – 7.2 sec
48 Mazda CX-7 – 7.2 sec
49 Toyota Sequoia – 7.3 sec
50 Mitsubishi Endeavor – 7.4 sec
51 Lincoln Navigator – 7.4 sec
52 Hummer H2 – 7.4 sec
53 Lexus GX 470 – 7.4 sec
54 Land Rover LR2 – 7.5 sec
55 BMW X5 – 7.5
56 Ford Expedition EL – 7.5 sec
57 Jeep Liberty – 7.6 sec
58 Mitsubishi Outlander – 7.6 sec
59 Volvo XC90 – 7.6
60 Dodge Nitro – 7.7 sec
61 Hummer H3 – 7.7 sec
62 Toyota Highlander Hybrid – 7.8 sec
63 Ford Freestyle – 7.9 sec
64 Lexus LX 470 – 7.9 sec
65 Jeep Grand Cherokee – 8.0 sec
66 Chrysler Aspen – 8.0
67 Jeep Wrangler – 8.2 sec
68 Chrysler Pacifica – 8.1 sec
69 Buick Rendezvous – 8.2 sec
70 Ford Explorer – 8.2
71 Lexus RX 400h – 8.2 sec
72 Jeep Compass – 8.3 sec
73 Jeep Patriot - 8.3 sec
74 Mercury Mountaineer – 8.3 sec
75 Subaru Forester – 8.3 sec
76 Suzuki Grand Vitara – 8.4 sec
77 Jeep Commander – 8.4 sec
78 Chevrolet Equinox – 8.5 sec
79 Dodge Durango – 8.5
80 Pontiac Torrent – 8.5 sec
81 Saturn VUE Hybrid – 8.5 sec
82 Hyundai Santa Fe – 8.6 sec
83 Toyota RAV4 – 8.7
84 Toyota Land Cruiser – 8.7 sec
85 Honda CR-V – 8.8 sec
86 Honda Element – 8.8 sec
87 Land Rover LR3 – 8.8 sec
88 Ford Escape – 8.9 sec
89 Mercedes-Benz GL320CDI – 8.9 sec
90 Mazda Tribute – 8.9 sec
91 Mercury Mariner – 9.0 sec
92 Saturn VUE – 9.1 sec
93 Toyota Highlander – 9.1 sec
94 Hyundai Tucson – 9.2 sec
95 Kia Sportage – 9.2 sec
96 Ford Escape Hybrid – 9.8 sec
97 Mercury Mariner Hybrid – 9.8 sec
98 Toyota Prius – 10.5 sec