I've grown tired of people saying, "diesel is dirty / buy a 'clean' gasoline car!" Gasoline is NOT clean. After 20 years of emissions controls, it is regulated, but it is still not clean.


Gasoline Particulates:
- "Gasoline engines are responsible for 25% of mobil source emissions of PM-2.5"
- "PM-2.5 causes cardiovascular and heart damage"

Gasoline Exhaust:
- "gasoline semi-volatile organic compounds cause DNA damage, chromosomal damage, and blood toxicity"
- "Air pollution induced by gasoline exhaust fumes seems to be involved in increased cardiovascular and respiratory morbidity."

Gasoline Evaporation:
- "evaporative emissions from gasoline cars are responsible for formation of ground-level ozone and NMOGs"


Source: Several... http://www.metacrawler.com "gasoline exhaust emissions"

Oh TroyBoy, you are so argumentative....

Here are the facts:

GAS EXHAUST IS NOT CLEAN. IT WILL KILL YOU. See "committed suicide by running a hose from exhaust into car cabin in closed garage."

More Facts:

DIESEL EXHAUST IS DIRTIER. IT WILL KILL YOU FASTER. It will worsen children's asthma. It will increase smog. It has been banned for use in passenger vehicles in 5 states. It has caused IMMEDIATE HEALTH PROBLEMS in workers who spend too much time breathing the fumes.

Has gasoline exhaust been banned ANYWHERE in the world, EVER? I don't know of that ever happening. You think there is some international conspiracy against diesel? These things are based on FACTS, not bias or perception.

No one begrudges your diesel - feel free to use it. But don't operate under the false assumption that it is cleaner or safer than gasoline exhaust - it's just not. See 50 years of studies by various government and private agencies.

lars-ss,

You're right about the history of diesel. But are you right about the future of it?

Johan Erlandsson

See mileage data for my 00 Prius.
See my environmental performance (still in swedish only, feel free to ask).

Dang, I pawned my Crystal Ball last week for Gas money !!!

Seriously though, we just don't know at this point. I think "clean diesel" may make some inroads in the USA, but until we have good science which declares it "as clean" or "as safe" as gasoline exhaust, then you will have that problem.

You also have DECADES of bad perception (cold start problems, clatter, bad smell of the exhaust, all the BANS, the fact that it is sometimes hard to find a pump that's not at the truck stop, etc) to overcome.

So diesel has issues. All I know is that anytime I smell diesel exhaust even today, I start feeling sick to my stomach. Literally. I always have since I was a kid. Maybe "clean diesel" will affect me differently, but only time will tell.

Right now, I would not recommend a TDI to any of my less-educated friends who were car shopping. I would say "Go Hybrid."

Yeah well... I get concerned when I see people posting 20-year-old data (like referring to 1980s diesels). Yeah okay you got sick off diesel fumes when you were a kid. I did too (my dad had a diesel suburban). But if you're going to be discussing CURRENT cars, then you should be posting CURRENT data.

I've stood behind the new TDIs, and smelled nothing. I'm sure you'd post a correction if someone said, "Hybrids are trash. The batteries have to be replaced every year.... just like those stupid 1980s electrics." You wouldn't just sit back and accept it. You'd correct the error.

Same here.
Actually, you can lock yourself inside with a diesel, and you won't die. The CO output is virtually nothing.


And no, I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think you have not informed yourself of the changes (or refuse to inform yourself). The TDI jumped from a "1" to a "6" in the EPA's green score, because Volkswagen updated the engine, and diesels are becoming cleaner. In 2007, it will jump to a "9" with California's clean diesel.

You are working with OLD information.

You need to update yourself with NEW information. Comparing a 1990 to a 2005 diesel is like comparing a 1960 to a 2005 gasser. The difference is that dramatic. Start by acknowledging the Green Score!

troy

OK, the green score is great.

But did the EPA manage to REMOVE the carcinogens from the diesel exhaust?

Clean is relative, and EVEN TODAY, in the USA, diesel exhaust (even clean diesel if you can find it) has more known carcinogens than gasoline fuel, and diesels are not cleaner than Hybrids.

Those nasty chemicals cannot be filtered out - it's chemistry....

"Good grief." - Charlie Brown

Gasoline has the *exact same carcinogens*. They both come from the same dirty barrel of oil.

diesels are more responsible for the formation of ground-level ozone than normal gasoline cars because of more NOx being emitted. This leads to the rest of the cardiovascular, heart, etc damage.

A Prius a day keeps the doctor away!

Most ozone comes from CO which is primarily a gasoline problem. CO reduction is the reason MTBE was added to gasoline.

According to http://www.epa.gov/air/urbanair/ozone/what.html it seems that NOx is a bigger factor than CO.

A Prius a day keeps the doctor away!