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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-29-2004, 07:36 PM
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Stevo12886 Stevo12886 is offline
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Real Name: Steven Sloan
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xcel, could you give me some more info on that corolla you have, like year, trans, mods....cuz that awsome gas milage
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Old 02-29-2004, 07:48 PM
Jason Jason is offline
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I think tomorrow I'll make some updates to the database so you can see the additional information that is stored. So you know, right now if you position your pointer over the car image, ALT text pops up with the car specifics

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Old 02-29-2004, 07:48 PM
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and looking again...im having a hard time believing the mdx got that kinda of milage...its rated at 17/23
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Old 02-29-2004, 08:48 PM
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xcel xcel is offline
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Real Name: Wayne Gerdes
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Hi Stevo12886:

___Let me point you to the pic of the game gauge and odometer of the MDX in this thread entitled “You aren’t going to believe this …” over in the Acuramdx.org forum. This was the first time I had just missed breaching 30 mpg in the monster heavy 4,500 # 4WD Acura MDX and I too didn’t think it was possible. Afterwards, I have exceeded 30 mpg more then a few times but I don’t drive it that much since it is my wife’s daily driver. If you don’t believe the digital pic’s, I don’t know what else I can tell you …

___With the experience I gained from the MDX’s game gauge, it helped improve my fuel economy skills to produce some great numbers in all of my vehicles … The Insightcentral.net forums, Rick Reese’s various posts around the Hybrid forums, personal correspondence, and Chisight’s personal tutelage finally got me to the Corolla’s 45.93 (not my personal best) in temperatures below freezing just a few weeks ago. Last November I had (2) 45.x mpg runs over 540 miles (3X round trip commutes) just after taking the Integrity’s to 50#’s. I had numerous > 650 mile range tanks out of the Corolla as well since I can place at least 15.36 gallons in its 13.2 rated capacity fuel tank. The Insightcentral.net 50 #’s in the tires tip is what pushed me over the top in terms of great fuel economy in temperatures (11 - 24 degrees F) that would have been impossible just one year ago.

___The Corolla is an 03 LE w/ an Automatic. It has 57,500 + miles on her now and was my primary commuter until I picked up the 5-speed Insight 2 + months ago. In it, I run Mobil1 5W-30 Synthetic, am now running 50 #’s in the GoodYear Integrity’s (since late November of last year – See above), and drive with a constant load mentality vs. constant speed w/ cruise as most do. I drive the limits in the far right lane almost exclusively and accelerate 0 - 60 mpg in between ~ 20 and 50 seconds when traffic is clear. I always keep or attempt to keep at least a 5 car spacing between me and the traffic ahead while running in bumper to bumper stop and go so I don’t have to use the brakes if at all possible. I have an I-Pass so most toll-booths here near Chicago do not slow me down. Those that have gates only, I can coast through at a maximum of 18 mpg before the gate would not open fast enough to take out the windscreen. I try and time lights and am always looking 2 lights or 2 exit ramps out if possible to attempt to keep my momentum up.

___In any case, the 5-speed Insight appears to be at least 2X as efficient under certain circumstances/conditions. When the temps, winds, or traffic isn’t right however, the Corolla can easily maintain a closer to record high mileage whereas the Insight sometimes gets creamed for almost no reason. Creamed still means 65 to 70 mpg in 0 - 20 degree temperatures with a strong headwind, snow, rain, or traffic that is not conducive to high mileage driving techniques. Any automobile that receives 65 - 70 mpg in poor conditions is still a great achievement however …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

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Old 02-29-2004, 09:10 PM
Jason Jason is offline
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Wow!

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-01-2004, 04:55 PM
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Stevo12886 Stevo12886 is offline
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thats great xcel, sry that i doubted you. is the 5W30 what the 03 rollas call for? hmmm, maybe over 30 mpg is possible in city driving w/ my flower....hmm
oh, one more thing...are the integritys low rolling resistance tires?
and, any tips other than the timing lights and constant loads, i try those anyway, but its tuff in the trafic i have?
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Old 03-01-2004, 09:38 PM
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xcel xcel is offline
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Hi Stevo12886:

___Oh boy, you asked but I don’t think you are going to like reading this lengthy diatribe …

___The 03/04 Corolla’s use 5W-30. I don’t know what the previous generation called for if that is what you own?

___The Integrity’s aren’t called LRR as such but since they are OEM on the 04 Prius, I have to assume that GoodYear and Toyota were talking about what was and wasn’t available in terms of LRR to supply the Corolla and Prius lines in large quantities … Remember the 01-03 Prius used a particular version of the infamous Bridgestone RE92’s which are known as LRR’s and I doubt Toyota was going to give an inch to EPA estimates with a sub par higher resistance tire given how much effort was spent to receive the economy that the Prius is capable of to begin with. Again, I am not sure but with the Integrity’s at 37.5 #’s and above, these things allow the Corolla to practically float on the hwy.

___Other tips might include knowing about how and when to use the 4 types of drafts available to you as well as what driving with load actually means … The MDX and Corolla are well overpowered to feel any hint of loss of speed on overpasses, small hills, slight climbs, and such. With a game gauge however, you can easily see that even the MDX w/ its overpowered 260 HP/250 Ft.-lb’s of torque capable ICE begins to use fuel at a much higher rate then when at steady cruise on the flats when climbing even the slightest of hills. With that, always force the Corolla to drop speed when climbing hills and pick it back up again on the downhill side. Traffic permitting of course. Without a game gauge, it’s tough to do but just learn it, live it, and you will see the results at the fuel station tank after tank.

___If you find yourself fighting a heavy frontal wind, find a draft. Let’s say you have 20 + miles per hour winds heading straight down the nose. In that type of condition, a straight draft is all you have left in the bag of tricks or you will get killed in the mpg department. A game gauge will show exactly how bad it is … I know the Corolla’s don’t have a game gauge but seeing the MDX and the Insight in that same condition, believe me, it’s bad. The traffic-side and surf drafts aren’t worth a **** with that strong a head wind so it’s either the straight-distance drafts or the straight-close draft. The straight-close draft is dangerous as hell. It is when you are tucked in so close to the rear underride guard of an 18-wheeler that he doesn’t see you and you have no chance to avoid an accident if he were to ever slam on the brakes. You are just ahead of the vortices (ahead of the air stream buffet) if that gives you an idea where that is. Again, if you use this method, you will have an accident eventually … A straight draft just beyond the vortices from the rear however is usually about 1 to 1.5 seconds back. It isn’t worth much but with a 20 + miles per hour headwind, anything will do.

___Without a heavy head wind, it’s best to use none, the surf, or traffic-side drafts to help you along. I won’t bother explaining why as you really need a game gauge to see it … The traffic-side draft comes about in heavier traffic where you simply keep pace or are slightly slower then everyone else to your left. What appears to happen is a localized wind tunnel in your favor begins to form around all the automobiles in the grouping. You aren’t really straight-close or straight drafting anyone in a grouping of automobiles but are just maintaining the pace or slightly slower as stated above. If there is a large Cabover/18-wheeler in the grouping, so much the better. Try and keep in an adjacent lane just behind the truck wash. You may feel an occasional buffet but it is much safer given you are in your own lane and not directly next to the 18-wheeler. Both the traffic-draft and surf draft have been used by everyone without them even having known they were being helped along. I think I already mentioned maintaining distance in traffic to limit your use of the brakes in a previous post above?

___When I speak of following the limits, I mean it. The less power the vehicle has, the more apparent the mpg drop is as you increase speed. The MDX can travel in the mid 50’s to low 60’s while still seeing relatively close to maximum fuel economy on the game gauge depending on what is going on with temperature, wind, traffic around you, and how steady you are on the accelerator or cruise if you decide to use it. The Corolla appears to be best around 55 miles per hour in most conditions and the Insight is best around 45 - 52 miles per hour. Again, under most conditions. You will receive even more at 30 - 38 miles per hour but these types of speeds aren’t meant for the Interstates in any way shape or form so don’t even go there. Stick to 55 miles per hour in your Corolla and you will be very pleased with the results. In the Insight, I have to drive 55 miles per hour so I cannot approach its best numbers unless traffic has slowed down just a hair when slightly congested. Traffic-side in that condition helps me out as well …

___I mentioned tire pressures. I began experimenting with those about 6 - 9 months ago. I don’t know if you own an 03/04 Corolla with Firestones or Integrity’s or a previous generation w/ something else but upping the pressures to the maximum listed on the sidewalls will give you better fuel economy in my short time playing with that variable. With that, I have upped these pressures beyond the sidewall rating after reading information from a tire manufacturer rep about tires rated and blow out pressures. Higher pressures offer me higher mileage, perceived better handling under dry conditions, and longer tread wear. On the other side of the equation, the ride becomes harsher as the pressure is increased, I believe it increases braking distance, the target automobiles suspension has to do that that much more work that it was not designed for, and the tire(s) can be blown out with even less of an impact from road debris or road abnormalities. There is no free lunch so understand the risks before attempting this. Following the speed limits will reduce all of the negatives to possibly better then where you were before slowing down a bit if that makes any sense to you.

___You must have patience. Driving 55 to 60 miles per hour only takes a few extra minutes to arrive at your destination then driving 60 to 70 miles per hour. Go pick up a few Unabridged “Books-on-Tape” or “CD’s-on-Tape” to pass the extra time. Think about the lowered Greenhouse gas emissions, the lesser smog pollutants in your exhausts effluent/mile, the lowered dependence on foreign oil supplies, and your own pocket book’s ever increasing balance because you aren’t giving it away to the fuel pump. Consider how much safer you are in those instances when something actually does happen in front of you that you can now avoid at the posted limits that you would not have otherwise been able to avoid when exceeding them. On the downside (there always has to be one of those, doesn’t there ) … On highways with 55 - 70 miles per hour limits while driving 55 - 65 miles per hour can almost be described as crazy at some points in time even though you are not the one breaking the law. With all of the above, keep in eye on the rear and side view mirror(s). Most of the screw ups I have seen other drivers perform to cause me anxiety are when real high speed drivers (75 - 100 miles per hour types) are passing on the right to avoid congestion or are simply not paying attention. The maintenance lane can be your friend when you have one of these idiots pulling into the far right lane thinking no one was there and all of a sudden, there you are … In other words, be careful out there.

___I have forgotten a few others like maximizing ones mileage while using the various combinations of game gauge(s) or varying acceleration rates depending on the type of Hybrid or std. ICE. Some of this has been discussed in the Fuel Efficiency Techniques - FAQ over at Insight Central and mentions of the many nuances in its forums.

___Lastly, I am still experimenting. No one technique works each and every time under every and/or all conditions driving any of the vehicles in a similar manner. I did not mention warm air mods since on a Corolla or larger automobile; the efficiency of the ICE is not nearly as high as that of an Insight so the results will be far less satisfactory. I haven’t done any work on the Corolla but if gasoline hits $2.50 or more per gallon here in the Chicago area, I might just begin playing with that late next fall when temperatures plummet again … You have three or more choices in regards to warm air/warming mod(s) but that is really meant for someone with an OBD-II scan tool to verify the mod hasn’t gone too far. Also, some of the terms I described above have possibly never been mentioned that I know of. Surf and drafting have been of course but there are always nuances (straight-close, straight, or traffic-side) when it comes to high fuel economy driving. I just hope I didn’t screw someone else up in their own search for that high mileage extreme in whatever other automobile they happen to be driving conservatively.

___And once again, be **** careful out there. Also, I am as always looking for another improved tool, method, and/or technique to gain an edge against that ever present and looming SOB named “EPA estimate”

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2004, 11:53 AM
Jason Jason is offline
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Real Name: Jason Siegel
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Wayne, I have already given someone here the title of "Long Poster," but apparently you're more deserving. How long did it take you to type that?

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2004, 01:18 PM
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xcel xcel is offline
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Real Name: Wayne Gerdes
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Hi Jason:

___If I told you the following, I don’t know if you would believe me either ___And a few really old ones in the < 20 page range not even worth mentioning. All done in 10 point - Times New Roman w/ signatures applied.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

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Old 03-02-2004, 02:07 PM
Jason Jason is offline
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Hold on -- you wrote a 2 thousand page reply to something? Did I get that right?

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