Green Car Congress



Honda’s More Powerful Fuel Cell Concept with Home Hydrogen Refueling

19 October 2005

FCX Concept with the Home Energy System for refueling.

Honda’s new FCX fuel cell concept vehicle, unveiled at the Tokyo Motor Show, is a stylish sedan featuring a redesigned fuel cell system that delivers more power and increased range in less space than the current FCX 2005 model on the road, and a low-floor design that maximizes cabin space.

(Click on link for entire article and photos)

Another excerpt:

HES System

Honda also unveiled its current model of the Home Energy Station (HES), a home cogeneration and fueling system that uses natural gas to supply electricity and heat in addition to hydrogen fuel for vehicles.

The system is equipped with fuel cells that generate electricity (5 kW) for the home, and is configured to recover the heat produced during power generation for domestic water heating. The HES can produce 3 Nm3/hr of hydrogen. In addition to reducing carbon dioxide emissions by some 40%, according to Honda’s calculations, the HES system is expected to lower by 50% the total running cost of household electricity, gas and vehicle fuel. ================================================== =
Honda has a winning idea here! The concept is a stroke of genius really, the major drawback to building hydrogen fueled cars is a lack of hydrogen filling stations. If you have your own, problem solved and you get low cost power and heat for home use as a bonus.

But how much will it cost for start up and how long for the return on investment?Kevin

2004 silverblue 5 sp.

Pick me, pick me!
I am a perfect candidate:
I have a 98 VW New Beetle Diesel (128,000 miles) to trade in
(already a believer in fuel economy, longevity of vehicle,
small imprint on earth, reasonable speed limits, etc)
have an older heating system that needs an upgrade,
AND I already have natural gas piping in my house!
Again, pick me!

Bill in Providence, RI

Strange that they want to make hydrogen first!

There are some very good Stirling cycle home generators that are being encouraged over here (in the UK) that run off piped in natural gas. They provide sufficient electricity to run the house and the waste heat is used to provide central heating - very efficient and much simpler. (eg Whispergen)

Honda are also the World leaders in natural gas powered cars, recharged at home from the natural gas supply. Together these two technologies would be waaay more efficient (and cheaper, simpler etc) than converting the natural gas to hydrogen first.

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ecotech/ecot.htm

I thought I read that Natural Gas is expected to double in price this winter ?

The Honda claim of cost savings using natural gas is suspect at best right now; and if demand for the gas increases -- forget it.

The only cheap fossil fuel around is coal.

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

Looks like they plan on producing synthetic methane from coal, and / or other synfuels.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005...y_energy_.html

2001 Prius Photos       2005 Prius Photos
'97 Prius Simulation Prius inner workings

clett posted:

Clett, I think the object is to get hydrogen-fueled cars on the road and the major drawback to building hydrogen fueled cars is a lack of hydrogen filling stations. Most people are already connected to natual gas or have ready access to it, so an initial refueling infrastucture is in place. After a fleet of H2 powered vehicles are on the road, H2 refilling stations will start to appear.

I agree with your comment regarding natural gas (methane), however, that supply appears to be a bit stretched at the moment, and is becoming more pricy. The beauty of this system is that while it may not be terribly efficient at producing hydrogen, we can utilize the waste heat in our homes.

There are many ways to produce hydrogen, one of the most attractive being electrolyzing water with excess electricity. Excess electricity? Yes! We have a problem with wind turbines, they produce power when the wind is blowing whether we need that power or not. It's great when our needs and supply coincide but sometimes the turbines are putting out power when we don't need it. That's when we need to be switching over to hydrogen production.That's exactly the system operating on the Toronto waterfront now. There is an electrolyzing plant and H2 filling station at it's base.

Hi Timetrvlr,

My point was that you have to question why they are pushing so much to see hydrogen cars on the road when the whole system of using hydrogen is so much less efficient than many others?

In a time when energy is becoming more and more expensive, it just doesn't make sense to waste three-quarters of it producing, compressing and then burning hydrogen. Using natural gas alone without any of this converting to hydrogen first is greatly more efficient (and not to mention cheaper, simpler, currently available etc etc). And plug-in hybrids use at least three times less energy than H2 cars.

Why then are H2 cars being pushed so much? So that you remain tied to the big-oil companies refuelling network. A multi-trillion dollar industry isn't going to let go of its consumer base that easily. The problem of peaky renewables supplies can be solved in many other ways that don't involve hydrogen.

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ecotech/ecot.htm