Hi,

The recent claims that hybrids and in particular the Prius are a "style" bothered me. The discontinued Insight was even more radical than the 2001-2003 Prius, which looked a lot like a Ford Focus with a trunk spoiler. Yet curiously, the success of the Prius is cited as a style while ignoring an inconvenient truth, the Insight 'style' was discontinued. But there is no getting around the relative sales numbers of Prius vs other hybrids. Even when Prius had 3-6 month waiting lists with rapacious dealer charges, other hybrids were on lots waiting for customers.

Now CNW Marketing is claiming the Prius is a "style", which gives lie to their earlier claim that a Prius would only have a lifetime 109,000 miles. A "style" doesn't sit in the driveway but has to be driven to assert the "style." There are many reasons to be skeptical of CNW Marketing but this new claim, a "style," may have another use.

GM has announced the two-mode transmission for existing body styles. Furthermore, GM's current hybrids, the discontinued Silverado, current Saturn VUE green and Malibu are in the same boat as all 'hybrids in gas clothing' models. GM's hybrids current and future have no external body styling that says, "I am a hybrid."

This suggests that someone via CNW Marketing is trying to get the new GM hybrids turned over to the 'style' shop for external rework. At this late date, it would be impossible to make a significant body change. However, there is a possibility of a radical trim change that GM might use to "brand" their hybrid vehicles. Another alternative is preparing an excuse for GM hybrid sales problems because "it looks too much like the gas models."

So I have a "style" suggestion for GM (and anyone else who has unsold hybrids on the lot.) It isn't original but put a big red circle and slash over a gasoline pump outline on the trunk. The "bar gasoline" symbol about one foot by one foot in reflective paint would be just about perfect and wouldn't cost that much. It could also be done in chrome and fixed to the trunk.

This would give a unique cache to GM's "hybrid in gas clothing" vehicles. It would make a bold "style" statement. Sure it could be copied but so what. The existence of this unique trademark would 'make a statement' without having to rework the metal shop.

Regardless of the underlying reasons, this "style" claim is two edged and punctures the CNW Marketing assertion that hybrids are not driven. What use is a "style" that just sits in a driveway?

Bob Wilson

ps. Or "style" could be more grasping at straws by frustrated skeptics.

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Badging is probably sufficient, isn't it? I drive a HCHII and I think everyone who sees the car recognizes that, either from the badge or the pie-tin wheels or the mast antenna, all of which are afterthoughts from a design standpoint. I caught a glimpse of a VUE Greenline today (passing me in the fast lane, naturellement) and all I needed to see was the badge. You can spot the FFV badges on the Impalas and some of the Dodges from a mile away. And maintaining the same sheet metal across trim levels and drivetrains helps lower the unit cost of the hybrids-in-gas-clothing, all other things equal.

All this puts aside the question of why one would allow CNW Marketing to take up any real estate in one's head at all.

It has to do with being ready to deal with skeptics. Most folks lack enough information to make an informed comment. But folks like CNW Marketing, Penn and Teller, and a host of hybrid skeptics are out there doing whatever they can to bring hybrids into disrepute. For me, it is a question of being ready with the facts and data to answer any skeptic claim echoed by folks I run into in real life.

I have two Google news 'alerts' for: (1) "hybrid electric" and (2) "CNW Marketing". What these do is give early warning of the "buzz" that is likely to be picked up by skeptics. Depending upon who is echoing these claims, I decide what the follow-up should be:

• newspaper or media - a letter to the editor that points out the inconsistency, distortions or lies. In particular, I address my note to the editor first and always cite the inaccuracy.
• blogs - hostile blogs are ignored. Friendly blogs get the facts and data to answer a skeptic.
• cartoon characters and entertainers - heckling doesn't work but if they are on a travel circuit, it is good to share actual mileage.

Over time, my small voice and the voices of others begin to tell on responsible news editors. Their integrity is all that separates them from entertainment or fluff. As they begin to see skeptics have become sources of lies, misrepresentations and distortions, they become less and less inclined to cite that source. It takes time and won't happen over night but it is necessary.

In my neck of the woods, North Alabama, we have a lot of hybrid skeptics. Anymore they seldom bring their fantasies to me after having to retreat in the face of a calm presentation of the facts and data. Now I don't chase them down but I don't back down.

Bob Wilson (former Marine)

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

I love that. Good for you, Bob! Personally, I feel more comfortable just knowing that people like you are out there, fighting. This is a battle of ideas and images, and the battlefield is perception and public education, not really politics or even the economic factors driving the car companies and their engineers. It would take a lot more than a few thousand or tens of thousands of hybrid car drivers to materially shift the economic rulebook, and most people aren't going to base their political votes on this issue, hot-button or not. The things we can impact most readily are more fundamental; if we can affect public opinion by educating people, which may motivate them to buy and demand hybrids, drive more efficiently, shop for more efficient cars, and 'vote with their wallets,' then the economic and political realities will shift to conform to that public will. That's the nature of our consumerist society, for good or ill.

Our impact on public opinion isn't just through this site. It can be small- talking to friends, family, and neighbors about how great your car is, or it can be big- writing a letter to a Congressman or an editor, getting a media story straight, taking a position on legislation, or correcting false reports. We can be a highly effective community if we reach out to people, and it's already happening every day.

Let me throw this one out there to see what you all think. I'm not saying that the following is 100% where I currently stand, but it's one of many lines of thought I entertain on the subject of hybrids (as I debate the issue with myself.)

Hybrids to me were always more of a journey rather than a destination. A bridge technology from 100% dependence on gas to something much more agressive (like a plug in or full EV). The industry seems to be spending an awful long time on this bridge, and keeps making unfulfilled promises about when we'll reach the other side.

I also think the elephant in the room is this: what happens when large-scale battery replacement becomes an issue with these cars around 2010-11. Even now, those with high-mileage hybrids (that are beyond the warranty) are getting hit with extremely high replacement costs ($3000+). I personally think that the lack of affordable battery replacements will be the near-death of hybrids. No one will want a Civic-class car that has a known $3000 repair in 8-10 years to keep running.

Now I think if batteries become a non-issue (which I hope they do), I think this "bridge" we're on could in fact be sustainable as a longer journey and hybrids could continue to grow in popularity. But if the batteries are an issue, some of these critics may not be as far off as we'd like them to be.

*** Retired after 65,000 outstanding miles ***

I agree, Tim.
THe IMA battery (and related components) are the biggest mystery, and largest expected cost to keep these vehicles running past any extended warranty time-frame. That's why I purchased the 120K mile warranty. When I get near that amount of miles on my HCH2, I'll become very leery of continuing to own this car, due to the current high price of a replacement IMA battery. If these costs become more reasonable (say $1000-$1500), then I'm OK with it. But at $3000-$5000, it's just too much.
I think this is going to affect the resale value of these vehicles tremendously - once the stats are in on just WHEN these batteries need to be replaced. It's my ONLY worry about these great interim-solution vehicles.

Steve

STOP terrorism - Drive a HYBRID

Vehicles:
350 miles a week ------------ 2006 HCH II, Magnetic Pearl, w/NAVI (born on May 25, 2006)
350 miles a month ---------- 2003 Mazda Tribute ES-V6
350 miles a year (for now) - 1986 Mercedes 560SL

You know how you can now buy a 3rd party alternator, 3rd party fan belt, 3rd party air filter, etc? Well, before long, you will be able to buy a 3rd party replacement battery for your hybrid. Watch and see. It would not surprise me one bit if in the future, even Wal-Mart sold them, in the top 5 most popular sizes.

Let's not worry about the battery issue until we need to.
I've already priced replacement battery parts for my Ford.
I can replace "just the cells" right now for about $1000.
Yes, it would be very time consuming, and very labor intensive, but once past the warranty period, if the rest of the car is in good shape, this may be an option for hobbyists and do-it-yourselfer's.

-John

I had held off on buying a Prius because of battery concerns. Then I realized the skeptics were making the battery claims and they had been wrong about everything else. I bought my Prius within a week.

I'm fully aware of the battery risk but with the knowledge I have now, I know I can handle it. I'll probably first add electrolyte and test the packs. Then I'll balance charge them and be back on the road for another 500,000 miles.

Why do I know it will be another 500,000 miles? Because no one knows!

Of course the real answer is we'll drive the car until the wheels fall off. No doubt, that is at least 100,000 miles away, the car is currently at 87,000.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

I have to assume you are joking, since you know the cells are sealed "dry cells" just like your Duracell flashlight batteries!
-John

P.S. Someone is buying replacement cells already, because price is going up. A year or more ago, you could buy replacement cells for $4-5 each.
Now they are more like $6-7 each.

Although they are "sealed," it is a plastic case and access is possible. It isn't trivial and involves a small hole and use a syringe to replace the KOH electrolyte. As long as the cells aren't shorted, they work like ordinary batteries.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.