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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2008, 01:28 PM
kenny kenny is offline
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Hybrids: 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid
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Default Re: I loved my hybrid but I'll sell it

Quote:
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
That range is very good for an EV.

Anyway, it's not really the daily driving that is the problem. If you do any weekend trips with any sort of frequency, even that range is not enough. That means, the EV Aptera is limited to being a second car for an extra $20,000. (While one could rent for longer trips, doing so once a month or so would eliminate any savings you'd have. Plus, it would be inconvenient to rent so often.)

The hybrid range is "only" OK but. since it takes only a few minutes to fill-up, it isn't a problem.
Well, that depends.
People vary.
Yes for some people 120 miles is not enough.
For me it is. (Well, actually it is borderline and I'm undecided which Aptera to get. That extra $3000 for the hybrid would pay for a lot of occasional rental cars.)
Also for people who are not single one person can have an Aptera and the other can have a car with greater range and more room.

Many people will fit into this category and for them it would not be an additional $20K for an extra car.

I'd not dismiss the Aptera out of hand, or say one description applies to everyone.

.

Need fewer troops to support.
Drive a hybrid.
Best tank 71.65 MPG.

Before this car I spent two years learning hypermiling on my 2004 HCH1.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2008, 01:37 PM
njkayaker njkayaker is offline
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Default Re: I loved my hybrid but I'll sell it

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny View Post
Well, that depends.
People vary.
What matters isn't that exceptions exist (it's easy to find exceptions). It's whether there are enough of those people to make a market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny View Post
Yes for some people 120 miles is not enough.
A 120 mile range does go a long way to making it generally practical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny View Post
For me it is.
You never go on weeked trips?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny View Post
Also for people who are not single one person can have an Aptera and the other can have a car with greater range and more room.
I said that ("it might work as a second car in a two-car family"). If a car can't work as an only car, it's not clear that there will be a real market for it. If a car can work for a single person (even if it is a lame two-seater), a viable market for it is almost assured. Keep in mind that things can only get cheap if there is a big market. Note that a $15,000 Yaris can carry 4 people and leaves an extra $15,000 to spend on gas (equivalent to about 170,000 miles of driving!).

One really starts saving money on fuel if one drives many miles per year. Since EV are so limited in range (and have long fill-up times), they can't easily be used for such driving.

Driving 12,000 a year is 33 miles a day or about 1 gallon of gas per day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny View Post
Many people will fit into this category and for them it would not be an additional $20K for an extra car.
I don't think there are as many people who this would work for as you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny View Post
I'd not dismiss the Aptera out of hand, or say one description applies to everyone.
I'm not dismissing it (not the hybrid version at least!). I like it.

Last edited by njkayaker : 06-09-2008 at 01:53 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2008, 01:52 PM
kenny kenny is offline
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Default Re: I loved my hybrid but I'll sell it

Since you ask, I rarely take weekend trips - maybe one every year or two.
I take a real vacation once every 15 or 20 years.
I'm the type who loves to stay home a lot.
I'd rather spend my money on a better piano or something.
I play piano, guitar and do creative things.

After Sept 11th I rethought many things.
I cut back on some things that use oil unnecessarily.

I have no opinion about what others do.
Live and let live.

.

Need fewer troops to support.
Drive a hybrid.
Best tank 71.65 MPG.

Before this car I spent two years learning hypermiling on my 2004 HCH1.

Last edited by kenny : 06-09-2008 at 01:55 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2008, 01:55 PM
njkayaker njkayaker is offline
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Default Re: I loved my hybrid but I'll sell it

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny View Post
Since you ask, I rarely take weekend trips.
What's "rarely" mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny View Post
I have no opinion about what others do.
Of course you do! And there's really nothing wrong with that.

Note that you are quite free do do want you think is appropriate for you. I'm not making any comment about your personal choice. I'm only discussing the general impact of EVs.

You should get your Aptera and post about it.

Last edited by njkayaker : 06-09-2008 at 01:58 PM.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2008, 01:57 PM
kenny kenny is offline
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Hybrids: 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid
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Default Re: I loved my hybrid but I'll sell it

See my edited post.

.

Need fewer troops to support.
Drive a hybrid.
Best tank 71.65 MPG.

Before this car I spent two years learning hypermiling on my 2004 HCH1.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2008, 01:59 PM
BigTuna BigTuna is offline
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Posts: 162
Default Re: I loved my hybrid but I'll sell it

Quote:
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
(Complaining about spelling is a bit lame. I'd have less problem spelling if I didn't have spinal cord damage.)
It is more of an "I love Firefox" thing than a "complaining about spelling thing", as I said my own spelling is awful. (just misspelled aweful, but Firefox caught it).

Sorry to hear about your spine.

You are correct about an EV's limits, they would make better second cars generally. A car like the Volt or Aptera would be more versatile (misspelled versatile so bad the spell check couldn't even guess what word I intended).

All that said an EV would be very practical for people in combination with a service like http://www.phillycarshare.org/

You could use an EV for commutes and short trips and rent a hybrid for longer trips.

The reason I'm even still talking about EVs after agreeing that a plug in series hybrid would be better is because the prices I've seen for the Volt and Aptera are around $30,000 while the price of the Mitsubishi iMiEV is said to be around $17,000 which is much more affordable.

My dream car is one with suitcase sized batteries that I could take into work and plug in there. I'd have zero daily commuting energy cost!
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2008, 02:02 PM
kenny kenny is offline
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Default Re: I loved my hybrid but I'll sell it

Quote:
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post


Of course you do! And there's really nothing wrong with that.
There is great peace in understanding we can only control one person on this planet.

.

Need fewer troops to support.
Drive a hybrid.
Best tank 71.65 MPG.

Before this car I spent two years learning hypermiling on my 2004 HCH1.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2008, 02:04 PM
njkayaker njkayaker is offline
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Default Re: I loved my hybrid but I'll sell it

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna View Post
All that said an EV would be very practical for people in combination with a service like http://www.phillycarshare.org/
Such a service would work really well for people who don't own cars. You'd probably have other problems if you had an EV in a metro area with good mass transit. Once you own a car, the economics of an EV don't work out very well. You can spend a little more in fuel costs and avoid needing to rent a car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna View Post
Mitsubishi iMiEV is said to be around $17,000 which is much more affordable.
Like many EV ideas, it looks like this is waiting for advances in battery technology.

http://www.hybridcars.com/electric-c...010-imiev.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna View Post
My dream car is one with suitcase sized batteries that I could take into work and plug in there. I'd have zero daily commuting energy cost!
I think you'll see that at the same time you see cancer cured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny View Post
There is great peace in understanding we can only control one person on this planet.
I don't expect that you have any interest in "controlling" anybody! Being "interested" in what people do doesn't mean you want to "control" them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny View Post
For me it is.
Would a bicycle work?

Last edited by njkayaker : 06-09-2008 at 02:20 PM.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2008, 02:11 PM
kenny kenny is offline
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Hybrids: 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid
Posts: 1,108
Default Re: I loved my hybrid but I'll sell it

nj, are you by chance be one of those people on the Internet who just likes to argue?

.

Need fewer troops to support.
Drive a hybrid.
Best tank 71.65 MPG.

Before this car I spent two years learning hypermiling on my 2004 HCH1.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2008, 02:13 PM
njkayaker njkayaker is offline
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Posts: 24
Default Re: I loved my hybrid but I'll sell it

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny View Post
nj, are you by chance be one of those people on the Internet who just likes to argue?
Are you? (It's a rhetorical question.)
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