Gang:

I was wondering if an automaker would be willing to improve the starting system in a non hybrid vehilce so that it wouldnt ever idle. It would just shut off -then start up again when you pressed the gas. Wouldnt that save a pile of gas and emissions on its own?

perhaps it could also coast without the engine on just like when we are coasting to an intersection with our hybrids.

wouldnt this be a much cheaper alternative for someone who doesnt want to pay huge bucks for a hybrid?

Do a google search on BAS of Belt Alternator Starter. Saturn will be introducing it on the Vue soon, and this does basically what you are talking about.

It is call a Silverado and I believe it is still available from your local GM dealer. The engine shutoff while moving isn't there but you are welcome to add to our knowledge and conduct the experiment. Unfortunately, the fuel efficiency gain as measured by EPA isn't there. But, whatever 'cranks your tractor.'

One of our local posters suggested the BAS system provided additional power for a contractor, remote power supply. Thus one Silverado could operate all of the power tools needed to build a house.

Bob Wilson

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That seems to be, according to Martin, one of the primary motivators for the 'hybrid' Silverado- bring yer own genny and free up bed space to haul revenue-generating stuff instead of support equipment.

Save a little fuel while driving, from idle-stop, and built-in power generation at the site. And don't forget- the truck engine has much better emisisons controls than a standalone generator (which has almost none). It also uses less fuel since the ICE only starts up when a substantial load is drawn, unlike a standalone.

Once everyone is comfortable with higher-voltage systems on vehicles, idle-stop will become very widespread among non-hybrid vehicles of all classes.

brian


thanks for the info -thanks also to everyone who replied. I was just kinda curious, as i see how being emmission free at stoplights really works for the environment.

- For steering assist, the conventional hydraulic assist does not work. You will be required an electric assist like Prius.
- For brake assist, the conventional vacuum assist does not work. You will be required a hydraulic accumulator like Prius.
- For AC, the conventional belt driven compressor does not work. You will be required an electric compressor like Prius.

Ken@Japan

Tom-stopping the motor can save some fuel. My Scanguage tells me
1)Small 4 cyl about .2 gal.hr at idle- 2001 Prizm(corolla) 1.8 4cyl
2)Decent sized V-6 .4 GAL/HR Honda Pilot
3)V-8 ,5-.6 GAL/HR Nissan Titan 5.6 V-8
The Prius seems to use in the .2 gal/hr range.I suspect it uses less, but the scanguage only reads to 1/10th gallons.
Lots of folks spend an hour a week idling-a V-8 will save 180 gallons($500+) a year if it had a shut down(ignoring AC etc). Luck,Charlie

I actually tested the idling rate on my '03 Civic Hybrid when fully warmed up by rolling at in neutral until the instantaneous gauge first pegged "120mpg" at 15mph. That works out to .125 gallons/hr, or 3/4 of a cent per minute at current fuel prices.

180 gallons/yr would mean they were idling an hour a day. Actual savings for an hour a week would be more like $70/yr.

When it gets down to it, there really is not a whole lot of money to be saved by shutting the engine down at stop lights and such, especially on smaller engines, which would make it difficult for most manufacturers to justify much more expensive starter equipment dedicated for that purpose. In the case of a hybrid system, the motor etc. are already there, and the engine shutoff doesn't cost anything extra to implement.

I suspect mild hybrid systems such as the GM Silverado Hybrid save more fuel with a larger combined starter/alternator by applying necessary accessory loads at more convenient times, such as during braking (and easing off on charging under acceleration) than from actual engine stop. The generator application though is another big plus. I think all hybrids should offer that feature as a "selling point" as it wouldn't cost much to add, and it would be very useful for many people, even in passenger cars, to have reliable 120vAC sockets for camping or whatever. The amount of pollution saved by reducing standalone generator use could actually outweigh the direct fuel savings.

see bwilson about installing an inverter in a Prius... though I suppose an IMA version is equally possible. (Trying to gin up a side business for you there, Bob)

Now about saving fuel at idle: I did a calculation for a small engine, but would scale to any size: http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/s...36&postcount=8

~8-10 seconds of idling = same gas used for starting a 'normal' engine.

If you're so inclined, and willing to lose cool air after a couple of minutes, just shut 'er down manually until idlestop becomes standard...

I do think that an hour/day of idling is very reasonable for lots of people- deliveries, those who are too stupid to sut down to pick up kids at school or 'run in' to the quikmart, any run of the mill commuter traffic jam, ..., ...

FWIW, I agree that from a business point right now, the additional $$ for beefing up systems across an entire product line to have idlestop won't pass muster with the beancounters. Yet. But its going to trickle in, just like auto transmissions, power steering, windows, CD players, AC, etc all became standard.

That is a good point, while typical city driving doesn't have that much idle time and lights and such, there are situations, such as in long lines at drive-thru businesses, where people will have their brake lights on idling for as long as 20 minutes at a time, rather than killing the engine and pulling the parking brake. Of course, many times, with that much idling, they'd need to run the engine for accesories like air conditioner, or heating (I personally would rather park and wait inside an air-conditioned, or heated building rather than a drive-thru any day)

A belt-starter hybrid sytem could take over for climate control by adding a small extra A/C compressor like the Accord to maintain temp. Combine that with an electric heater (electric wires running through the heater core), and you could have heat or air conditioning without starting up the engine. That would be relevant if say, you were so unlucky as to get stuck in the middle of a closed freeway for 6 hours in the hot sun, or snowed in (depending on climate). Such a system could save double-digit dollars for just a single incident like that in a big V8 vehicle. Instad of neeing to run an engine and incur pumping losses just to get a few steady horsepower for accessories, with a high-voltage system, the engine could spin at the max load the battery could handle intermittently to top off the battery, then shut off, just like how an air compressor works to keep tank pressure topped off. If you add those 12vAC plugs, then this approach would work any time you needed sustained power in a remote location. Someone who needed to run lots of generator-hours could easily save hundreds a year, and spare their worksite/environment from a lot of nasty fumes.