Hello, My first post so please bear with. I drive about 65/70 miles a day to work all highway but fair amount of stop n go . We also keep our cars untell the paint falls off. I have some concerns about the reliability of the system for a 100k plus usage. Have also looked at vw desiels and the get 45++ mpg and last forever. Do not wish to start a fight just asking.
Thanks for any help ideas

timing belts on vw diesels must be changed, high injection pressure does not neccesarily mean that the block will stay well very long.

economic view:

NO selling license in california, need more explanations??

best wishes

euro website about consumption

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles...l-dilemma.html

http://myvwlemon.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

2006 Jetta TDI

2008 fuel economy (city, highway, combined) 30, 38, 33

greenhouse emissions 5.6 tons/yr
air pollution score 1/10

Cost to Drive 25 Miles $1.77
Fuel to Drive 25 Miles 0.66 gal
Cost of a Fill-up $35.10
Miles on a Tank 496 miles
Tank Size 14.5 gal
Annual Fuel Cost* $1061

Size Class Compact Cars
Engine Size (liters) 1.9
Passenger Volume 91 ft3 (4D)
Luggage Volume 16 ft3 (4D)

0-60 miles per hour 11.6 s

------------------------------------------------------------
2006 Prius

2008 fuel economy (city, highway, combined) 48, 45, 46

greenhouse emissions 3.4 tons/yr
air pollution score 8/10

Cost to Drive 25 Miles $1.16
Fuel to Drive 25 Miles 0.45 gal
Cost of a Fill-up $27.42
Miles on a Tank 589 miles
Tank Size 11.9 gal
Annual Fuel Cost* $699

Size Class Midsize Cars
Engine Size (liters) 1.5
Cylinders 4
Passenger Volume 96 ft3 (HB)
Luggage Volume 16 ft3 (HB)

0-60 miles per hour 10.1 s

------------------------------------------------------------
2006 Golf TDI

2008 fuel economy (city, highway, combined) 28, 40, 32

greenhouse emissions 5.7 tons/yr
air pollution score 1/10

Cost to Drive 25 Miles $1.82
Fuel to Drive 25 Miles 0.68 gal
Cost of a Fill-up $35.10
Miles on a Tank 483 miles
Tank Size 14.5 gal
Annual Fuel Cost* $1089

Size Class Compact Cars
Engine Size (liters) 1.9
Passenger Volume 88 ft3 (HB)
Luggage Volume 18 ft3 (HB)

0-60 miles per hour 12.0 s

------------------------------------------------------------
2007 Camry hybrid

2008 fuel economy (city, highway, combined) 33, 34, 34

Cost to Drive 25 Miles $1.64
Fuel to Drive 25 Miles 0.64 gal
Cost of a Fill-up $39.63
Miles on a Tank 604 miles
Tank Size 17.2 gal
Annual Fuel Cost* $983

greenhouse emissions 4.8 tons/yr
air pollution score 8/10

Size Class Midsize Cars
Engine Size (liters) 2.4
Cylinders 4
Passenger Volume 101 ft3 (4D)
Luggage Volume 11 ft3 (4D)

0-60 miles per hour 8.6 s

Hello and welcome to GH.

It's a good question, one that we've discussed many times before, and one that you'll also see every now and then at Diesel forums as well. Both sides will advocate theirs, and try to dissuade you from the other I'm afraid. Though Diesel fans tend to rely on bad information and outright false hybrid myths to try to make their case. There have been several who have had their hybrid 150K, and had no problems at all. They maintained it and found it worked great for them.

65-70 miles is a great distance for a hybrid, as it gets warm and spends a large amount of time there, and stop and go is really where hybrids shine. As mentioned, hybrids come with a pretty nice warranty as is, and every newer hybrid seems to sport even better batteries. Unless you're going to be doing something weird, like tinkering with it, I doubt the battery will ever be an issue.

I was told multiple times by Ford engineers who developed the system that they had been repeatedly stressed, and manufactured the system to outlast the frame itself; they didn't make these for short term use, but for long term use.

There are lots of pros to hybrid ownership, and I'm sure several of our eager members will be pleased to give them to you. However, don't get lazy, do the research too; you've made some great steps coming here and asking, don't give up yet.

First 4WD Hypermiler

Have you read the FEH FAQ?

Live in Michigan? Let it be known in Michigan Roll Call

Read My Automotive Blog at Rich Rambles

Welcome to the community parrothead56 !

I drive about 100 miles/day, and after 3 years have almost 100k miles and it still drives as good as day 1.
At 90,000 miles brakes are still almost new and had my original OEM tires changed at 88,000 miles.
I don't know how others have done regarding that but mine have been wonderful.

My commute is almost exclusively highway and get considerably higher than 45MPG.
If you missed the mileage reports here is a link:
http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/m...a-civicii.html
Here's primarily a Jetta TDI monthly mileage:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=169441

The results look about the same.
I'll also note that while TDI DSG(AT) seem to max around 45MPG, my CVT(AT) almost always does better than 60.

Regarding reliability:
Google VW reliability, then try Honda or another hybrid MFG of interest and come to your own conclusion. I also consider used vehicle listings as another source of vehicle longevity.
Auto trader is a popular source and can filter used cars with highest mileage.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/index.jsp?bkms=
You can find how many Jetta's, Honda's, Toyota's etc are still good enough for the market after 100,200 or +300K miles.

Both type vehicles are great choices. Please keep us posted about what ever you choose !
Glad you chimed in!
-Steve

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT

One option not discussed is the used hybrid market and options. Primarily active via Ebay, you can find hybrids past the 3/36000 mile warranty that still have the 8/100000 warranty on the hybrid battery and inverter. By all means, due-diligence is required but this provides a fairly affordable way into hybrid ownership. But it isn't for everyone.

I'm comfortable with self-maintenance so the 3/36000 holds no terrors for me. So I bought the maintenance manuals and have used them as a road map to the vehicle and systems.

GOOD LUCK!

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

It is true the timing belt on the VWs need replacing evry 60,000 miles I believe. If you don't replace it, and it fails, you just bought a new engine.

Now as for the high injection pressure. That is no big deal. Diesels have been running high injection pressures (over 15,000 PSI) for more years than I can remember. There are no widespread failures of engines due to the high injection pressures. As a matter of fact, th einjectors them selves are the only parts subjected to the increased wear of high injection pressure, but you don't see them failing left and right.

I drive about 120 miles per day in my commute to and from work. When I was looking at a new car I looked at the VW Jetta TDi, the MB 320 CDi and the TCH. The VW was out due to poor seat comfort, the MB was an almost purchase, but the TCH won out due to the better purchase price the better reliability, and the cheaper fuel price (Diesel typically costs more than regular unleaded).

I am sure the battery will last me for more than 200,000 miles, but I rarely keep a car past 150,000 so if it lasts that long I will be happy.

The only reason I would not buy a diesel right now is because I'm not a van of VW from the standpoint of reliability. The diesel engines are great but my friends' experiences with their Passats and Jettas have been a bit disappointing. Mostly irritating electrical stuff, fortunately...gizmos that go bad after a year or two.

I know someone who has an older (1999?) Mercedes E300 Turbodiesel that does 35mpg combined, and I bet it's in the 45mpg range at an extended highway cruise. It was dead reliable for the first 130k miles of its life, and at nearly 150k it is now starting to show its age. The high-pressure injection pump finally went (about a grand when replaced by the dealer) and there have been some other lower-cost issues.

If Honda manages to put its diesel into the Accord in North America it would be well worth a look. The 2.2L or 2.4L (I forget which) diesel powerplant should very driveable and provide very good highway mileage in a vehicle of that size. Too bad it's at least a couple of years off.

Now, hybrid technology has matured to the point that you aren't likely to have any more trouble with one than a comparable regular car. Manufacturers have gone out of their way to program the computers to take very good care of those batteries. Electric motors are simple devices, and if anything should out-last the internal combustion engine. And the eCVTs in Toyota, Ford, and Nissan products, though seemingly mysterious, are simpler than your average automatic transmission from a mechanical standpoint.

Personally I don't lose any sleep over having a hybrid as my daily driver, and I do plan to keep it for at least 100-150k miles. I doubt I would be losing any sleep over a comparable diesel, either.

You can't buy a new diesel car in New York at this time.

Maybe this will change with the cleaner diesel fuel, and the fact that Corning, Inc. has their new "Diesel Plant" in operation, manufacturing catalytic converters for diesel cars and trucks.

Harry

President Bush on Global Warming:

http://www.glumbert.com:80/media/globalwarming

Maybe I don't know hybrids as well as I thought, but the HCH has a timing belt which needs to be replaced as well (I think at 90-100K mark)... so that argument doesn't really make sense to me.