Well first I'm new here so I'll like to say this forum has been a real help to find info about this new class of cars.

Now, on the subject: I'm in Argentina and here we dont have any hybrids yet due to the lack of will from the main motor companies like Honda, Toyota and others to bring these cars here. To make it short, there no official hybrid maintenance here, nor tax returns or highway benefits.

But the big problem is that like 4 years ago the government, in a pretty stupid move, prohibited all car imports (except from car dealers) because in their minds it was destroying our national auto industry, thus leaving hundreds of fellow Argentinean workers in the street (companies moving their production facilities into our cheaper neighbour brazil aparently have nothing to do with that) So you can see, politicians are the same idiots everywhere.

So my problem is: if I manage to get an hybrid I still lack the repair facilities

So here's a bunch of questions (some related with my problems) for all you guys:

1-How often you've to take care of the hybrid parts of the car?

2-Do you (or a mechanic) need any training on hybrids to check the non-hybrid/traditional parts of the car? I mean, you dont have to know about hybrids to repair the internal combustion engine nor the brakes, right?

3-About spare pieces, which are the ones that are specifically of the hybrid part of the car? how often they may need repair/replacement?

4-I heard hybrids dont get broken/need repairs as often as normal cars do. Is this true?

5-This one is more of a personal opinion question: If I was going to get an hybrid, which one would you recommend me to buy and why?


So anyway, I hope you guys can help me with this

To have any new vehicle warranty honored, you'd need to follow the maintenance schedule of the vehicle. If there are truly no hybrid-certified mechanics in your city/country, then that could pose a significant issue in maintaining your vehicle and complying with its warranty, although it could take 10,000 or more miles before that became an issue, depending on the required service for whichever make/model hybrid you obtained. For example, my hybrid's first service interval is at 5,000 miles and that's just for a tire rotation that anyone could perform.

Many parts of a hybrid vehicle, particularly one based on a model that also exists in a gasoline-only form (Ford Escape, Honda Civic, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Mercury Mariner, etc.), are indeed servicable by any auto mechanic; another benefit is some spare parts for these models are probably more easily obtainable than a hybrid-only model (Toyota Prius, Honda Insight), if for example your vehicle is in an accident and suffers some minor body damage.

Ideally, particularly when under warranty, one would need access to a hybrid-certified mechanic/technician for anything that deals with the vehicle's gasoline engine or electric motor, the regenerative braking system, the high voltage battery, etc. The brakes, for example, are in part a hybrid component since current hybrids use "regenerative braking" in part to recharge the high voltage (hybrid) battery.

I can't comment on repair costs as I haven't had my hybrid that long and I had a very reliable previous vehicle that required simply routine oil changes and occasional tire rotation and replacement. Some components should last longer in a hybrid, like the brake pads for example. Some components that gasoline-only vehicles have, some models of hybrids don't even have -- an alternator, for example (the electric motor serves that purpose, in some cases.)

The personal question on which you should get can't be answered without knowing what type of vehicle you already have, your driving needs and so forth. It'd be like you asking what kind of shelter you should live in -- apartment, rental home or multi-floor house. Do you want a small, very high mileage sedan that looks unique? Do you want a slightly larger, high mileage sedan that looks like a non-hybrid sedan? Do you want and need a small-size Sport Utility Vehicle that gets 30+ miles per gallon, or do you want a larger size SUV that gets 25 or so miles per gallon? These are questions that reading this site can't help you make, other than to inform you about the various options available to consumers.

- Shannon (Geeky, Wild Texan)

Lets see...

I wouldnt care a lot for the warranty since I may void the second I took the car outside the country (US or europe) and to another country were hybrids are not official vehicles yet. If the carmaker finds me I may get sued...

About the parts, well that's kinda bad. I´ve an Honda Accord right now and was thinking about a Camry Hybrid since is in the same league (I dont like the hybrid accord that much). The non-hybrid camry can be found around here, so unless the synergy drive gets screwed I can repair anything else. Yet I do like the Prius and it's high MPG level, but as you said since it's an hybrid-only model the risk when dealing with repairs and service is way higher than camry's.

The personal question was meant from the readers standpoint, like "I got an HCH and of all the hybrids I've seen is the best one/I would recommend you to get one" That kind of answer.

Anyway, thanks for the data.

imo, getting a honda or toyota means that you're going to be getting a car that is already pretty reliable from the start. i just got my honda civic hybrid but i've read on the boards that the hch hybrid components don't need a lot (if any) regular maintenance. the problem of course is if you do have a problem - then you may be in a bit of trouble. but as i said, i think this is probably not going to be the case.

the ice in the car is basically like any other ice. in the civic hybrid, the ice does employ dual ignition and some other special components to handle cylinder idling. also, the computer systems and programs that control the engine are different in the hybrid. those programs control the air/fuel mixture, regenerative braking; cylinder idleing, auto-stop and fuel cut-off during cruising. these are all features that are unique to the civic hybrid. in the prius, the power split device (psd) would be unique as it functions as the transmission.

the hch has the electric motor, continuously variable transmission, battery pack and power control unit behind the back seat, various control units like the ecu. most if not all of these components will not need replacement or repair - at least based on what i've read here on the forums. of course, this is not strictly true. there have been cases of problem that some forum members have posted but they are rare.

well, technically there may be less wear on the engine since the electric motor assists it and it shuts down at stops and during cruising modes sometimes. also, the brakes aren't used a lot so brake pad and rotor replacement is rare.

depends on your needs and requirements. the prius is a great car but since you don't have service for it in argentina, it is technically quite a bit different from a normal car. the honda civic would be easier for a non-hybrid technician to service. the toyota camry hybrid is a larger car and gets great mpg but again, it may not suite your needs because of the unique design of the hsd system. then again, the engine on the prius and camry is pretty standard and i haven't read any posts about problems with the power split device so perhaps it wouldn't be a problem should it need serviced down there.

good luck and happy hybriding!

I've driven my HCH for over 70,000 miles now.
CVT fluid change at 30,000 and 60,000. Although this is not really a hybrid component the Honda's use CVT and this change must be done.
At 71,000 miles my OEM Dunlop tires have ~3mm across the bar so they'll need replacing soon, good news my brakes are still almost new.

All regular scheduled maintenance should be able to be performed with no problem by a good, skillful mechanic. Other repairs like CV joint replacement could be handled by the same shop with a repair manual.
Advanced electrical diagnostics and major hybrid component repair like Toyota's PSD "transmission" or Honda's flat electrical motor would no doubt be required by the MFG's authorized repair center.

Which one to buy?
Regarding economy you can research the GH database for some great information.

Both HCH and Prius have its own set of pros/cons.
Most of my commute is highway/freeway so I chose the HCH. If I had lots of starts/stops/traffic jams I'd have likely gotten Prius.

Does it all sound too risky?
If so, I'm not sure what is available in Argentina for very good, high MPG non-hybrid cars but shoudn't rule those out. I'm not sure of your driving habits or intentions regarding that but some folks are gettng 50's and some 60's MPG in very nice diesel cars and near-hybrid MPG in regular cars like the Civic and Corolla.
Perhaps you could get a great deal from one of those suffering automotive companies you mentioned?

Other members have given some great information here in the previous posts.
Can we help you with any other questions?

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT

OK, first of all I wanna thank you all for the info.

About my driving habits, well I already say I own an Accord, a 4 cilynder model to be exact. Good point from nbalthaser, the japanese cars do get the job done, in fact I've an this car because my father has a 95 Accord and it still runs like a charm.

I was thinking about getting the HAH, but I heard the fuel economy isnt that good compared to the non-hybrid version, plus I think the V6 is just too much for what I need. The camry on the other side has a more attractive MSRP and Toyota has a bigger presense in Argentina than Honda (toyota makes their cars here, while honda moved to brazil). Plus I like the new camry design more than the accord's.

Diesel used to be popular here but then other companies started to sell these NGV versions of their cars and now (except for trucks) the diesel is pretty much dead on the water, specially since naphtas here are almost the same price as disel, which pretty much kills one of the only reasons to buy a diesel.

Hot_Georgia_2004 honestly my daily routine is all inside the city, plus it seems my province is chock-full of the worst drivers in the world, so the start-stop is everyday crap around here. As you said, in this case it may be more convenient to go for a toyota. About those manuals you say, how you get one? I mean, are those for toyota/honda dealers only?

You can get the manuals online. Helms.com (full retail price), or if you watch eBay, you can get them for a lot less. Just watch eBay if/when you get a hybrid for the manuals pertaining to your make/model/year vehicle.

- Shannon (Geeky, Wild Texan)

Hi,

Most of the folks have already addressed your questions so I don't have a lot to add.

After buying my used, NHW11 03 Prius, I learned about two fleet performance reports that helped:
160,000 miles on six hybrids - Arizona (very hot) fleet usage
3 Million Kilometers - Canadian fleet report

Using these reports and vehicle specific technical reports on the Prius, I changed and tested the transmission oil early. Since then, I've made a study of my 03 Prius and am testing one modification. Otherwise, the car has a few driving quarks documented in the Prius FAQ but is unremarkable.

I bought the Toyota maintenance manuals, ~$250, but I do that with all of my cars. It isn't that US mechanics are particularly a problem but knowing what they are doing seems to improve the results. So far, my car has only been in to have a spare key made and I subsequently learned how to do it myself. The key has an RFID tag that has to be 'learned.'

I've bought a spare inverter from Ebay for another project and a spare wireless fob to go with my spare key. I programmed the car for the spare fob myself. It looks like all of my major parts can be bought from Ebay but there is no need. Also, I can get the parts from the local Toyota service shop but often there has been a delay as they have to get them delivered.

The brakes last a lot longer. Other fluids need to checked and changed as needed as well as air filters and windshield wipers and tires. The lights are on a 12 VDC system and use standard parts. The Prius battery is smaller and uses non-US terminals but there is a Miata battery that can work. Maintenance is pretty much like any other gas-only car.

There are so many choices, it is hard to say without understanding your requirements:

payload - small or large family, tools or outsized loads?
urban vs highway - what type of driving?
comfort vs utility - sometimes comfort is nice
what you are used to - past vehicles, our 03 Prius replaced a 91 Camry

The Honda, Ford and Toyota hybrids are pretty good cars and each has strengths and weaknesses. If you get a good match with your requirements, I'm sure you will be happy. In my case, I wanted a stronger electrical motor system but then I'm partial to getting 'into the guts.'

GOOD LUCK!

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

I used to live in Argentina. I didn't think anyone there even knew what hybrids were. I saw a few civics in San Isidro but other than that any Hybrid would probably stand out too much. I'm definitely not expert on Argentina but I would be hesitant to spend $20k+ on a car that might get you carjacked.

Based on this info, I would agree with what Hot_Georgia_2004 said. The Toyotas get better milage in stop and go trafffic. I drive all freeway and I get 50 mpg and when I drive in the city, my milage is much lower, but I have a friend with a Prius who drives all city and gets the same as my freeway milage.