Hi folks,

About a year and a half ago, CNW Marketing claimed a Prius gets only 6,700 miles per year, a key element of their claim of a 109,000 mile Prius lifetime mileage. They repeated this nonsense in August 21, 2007. So it was ironic to find "Cars.com" also has the raw data needed to refute CNW Marketing's lifetime mile claims since they are one of few web sites that cites CNW Marketing.

Using "Cars.com," I listed all Prius and loaded the year, asking price and miles into a spreadsheet. Then using September as 9/12 or .75 part of a year, I calculated the miles per year for each model year:

The Prius is getting about twice the number of miles per year, 12,700, over CNW Marketing claim of 6,700 miles. This substantially changes the expected lifetime by nearly a factor of two and pushes the lifetime miles to over 200,000 miles.

I ran a similar analysis for the Hummers and found their average miles per year is 13,940 (1,174 samples within 500 miles) versus 12,707 for the Prius. Although hummer annual miles is higher than the Prius, it is not enough to justify the woefully inaccurate CNW Marketing claim. I was able to use all Prius but only 1,174 Hummer samples within 500 miles due to a report size limitation of "Cars.com."

With the spreadsheet setup, I also ran the numbers for the Honda Civic Hybrid and got 13,832 mile per year for 807 samples. This is so close to the Hummer 13,940 miles per year as to be nearly identical. It also reflects both the HCH and Hummer being seen as better highway vehicles compared to the Prius that excels in urban driving.

It turns out that "Cars.com" provides an open database of used cars and their miles, to measure the miles per year. Everyone of the cars cited in the CNW Marketing "Dust to Dust" report can be analyzed and realistic lifetime mileage estimated. But focusing on the "Dust to Dust" outliers, the Hummer and Prius, is enough. Adding the Honda Civic Hybrid pretty well nails it.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

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Just playing devil's advocate here...
But what if CNW meant that the Prius is more poorly made than a Hummer, and thus can only handle up to 100,000 miles in its lifetime. And that if you did drive the Prius 12,707 miles/year, it would die in half the time. I think the expected lifetime is not only measured in miles/year.

First, I want to thank you for offering a suggestion, an approach, that might give CNW Marketing some cover. This is how science moves forward. However, that isn't quite what CNW Marketing claimed in August 20, 2007:
http://www.cnwmr.com/nss-folder/auto...or%20Prius.pdf

So "miles per year" times 15 years gives the expected vehicle lifetime, using CNW's own words.

• 12,700 * 15 = 190k miles Prius
• 13,940 * 15 = 209k miles Hummer
• 13,800 * 15 = 207k miles HCH

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

HA HA HA! "... not serviceable 15 years from today." It's a ****ing Toyota! It'll be serviceable 20 years from now, if not 30.

20 x 12,700 = 254,000

My '93 Accord had 223,000 on the clock when I sold it, in good condition. So long as these cars aren't involved in a wreck and have their oil changed regularly they'll last 400,000 miles without a problem. That comes to over 31 years.

That's some good analysis, Bob.
I had the chance to talk to someone that was quoting Dust to Dust, and I just couldn't get through to him. It didn't matter what I said, because CNW was published. Unfortunately, many people feel that same way, if its on TV, or written somewhere, its got to be true (right?).

CrAsion: The Pacific Institute has an excellent rebuttal to CNW Marketing. That should lend some credibility to your discussions.

Alden Bowles
2005 Toyota Prius II HSD

Thanks, abowles. Thats good reading.
Too bad that CNW did already pollute information out there with their so called research. And another problem is no mainstream media outlets seem to find the rebuttal of much newsworthiness.

I have a Google alert for everytime CNW Marketing shows up and their nonsense about hybrids seldom receives any notice. What happens is those who know the truth submit e-mail and letters to the editor that layout the facts and data. Eventually the CNW marketing moved down the 'food chain' and only receives support from those with an ax to grind, the anti-hybrid crowd.

Recently there was a column in a Chicago Tribune paper that repeated some of CNW Marketing's claptrap by holding the Lexus 600h up but without citing CNW Marketing. The second comment was mine that pretty well punctured his elitist claims.

Right now, it looks like "Cars.com" is the last supporter of CNW Marketing's nonsense. However, I plan to send a snail-mail report to the editor pointing out the contradictions between CNW's claims and the "Cars.com" data. Then I'll ask, "Who should I believe, CNW Marketing or Cars.com?"

All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men and women to do nothing. I'm not that good but I am persistent.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

Hmmm.. Good analysis, though in my opinion, the matrix is suppose to be erratic.. For people travel, or use their vehicles for trips in different places differently...

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