It's early - I'd bet the house that they'll have a PZEV and a SULEV version by the time they hit the road.......they would be unlikely to go backward.......

I recall a recent article that the Honda CEO smiles and tells his Acrua MDX chief engineer he knows Americans don't care about FE but insisted the MDX be greener than the BMW X5.

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

Thanks greatly for the info Clett, it certainly brings a smile to my face though i still see room for improvement in the system. I would agree that it would not be feasable for a 2 cylinder mode, even if two cylinders had enough power to cruise at 60 mpg on level ground, you have to add in the friction loss from draging the other cylinders around. IMO implanting a DI system would allow the air to fuel ratio in lean burn to go from 25:1 to 65:1, this would present more savings than running two cylinders. Hopefully the next gen will bring this about.

Hidden Views Photography

18 kw/cyl at redline = 5.83kw/cyl at 2000rpm cruising = 11.66 kw total (two cylinder mode). Now multiply by the 0.7 5th gear ratio found in the civic hybrid = 8.16 kilowatts. It's not enough power.




Now, where did Wayne get his numbers? I find those numbers hard to swallow. A 02-05 Civic in 5th gear generates 19.8 horses at 60 miles an hour. And it can barely move (it won't climb moderate slopes unless you shift down to 4th -or- engage assist). The Civic is already operating at minimum engine power.

If you switched to only 2 cylinders, the Civic would only be 9.9 horses, and that's just not enough power to maintain 60mph. The car would slow down.

troy

It's nice to see that the AC compressor can be driven by a separate electric motor OR the engine now, that way it will be possible to keep running the AC in Idle Stop mode, or without sacrificing any engine power. The belt can still run the compressor though on downgrades or during coasting though, instead of taxing the battery.

Electric mode for slow-speed crusing is nice, cruising around huge nearly-full parking lots is a pretty big MPG drain for my '03 civic, combined with improved regen braking, the system should offer a pretty substantial improvement in milage.

Just thinking about it, i wonder how this is integrated w/ MT...i guess there is a pedal sensor and some sort of algorithm that determines the mode of assist?

Hidden Views Photography

Sorry ElectricTroy - math error! Power is not converted in this way. A gearbox may reduce the revs by a factor of 0.7, but the torque is increased by the same amount (1/0.7) at the other side so the output power remains the same (because Power = Torque x Revs).

There are some losses due to friction in the drivetrain, but they are not directly related to final gear ratios and nothing like 30% (maybe 7-10% at low loads?).

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ecotech/ecot.htm

What do y'all think -- is this a significant enough improvement to put the new Civic into a category of it's own? To me it seems like there's enough changes to deserve an HCH II category, considering it can do some sort of EV mode, so that technically makes it a full hybrid.

2001 Prius Photos       2005 Prius Photos
1992 Mitsubishi Delica Diesel-WVO Hybrid Photos

I agree that the new civic should be a "new" car in the database.

Billy

Ooops.
Well, my math may be wrong, but my statement is still correct. A Civic Hybrid could not cruise at 60mph on only 2 cylinders. There's not enough power available.


If you can't do EV at highway speeds of 60+, and you can't plug it in, then it's *not* a full hybrid, imho. A full hybrid would be primarily an Electric Car (daily drives) + a small gas generator for recharge (long distance).

troy