The total number of battery packs replaced by Honda over the last six years is somewhere between one and nine, since 2000 when the Insight debuted, and including all years since, and including all other hybrid models (civic hybrid and accord hybrid) as well.

This, according to Akira Fujimura, senior chief engineer for Honda, who helped bring those three Honda hybrids to market. He would not indicate the exact value, but said it was a single digit, between one and nine.

This info was from today's Sacramento Bee, but the article itself is from Jim Mateja of the Chicago Tribune.

Whether that means that the packs very, very rarely fail; or whether it means that the batteries outlived the cars; or whether it means that people just drove with the ICE when the batteries eventually failed; any way you slice it, this does a lot to dispel much of the anti-hybrid hype and misinformation about hybrid batteries.

Hi Coyote:

___I am not calling him a liar but I will say he may be a bit uninformed … A quick look through IC and the YaHoo – Honda Hybrids group should tell you there are a lot more then just 1 - 9 packs that went belly up in the last 5 years I can name 3 off the top of my head and I do not hang out in those sites (IC and Y – HH) that often!

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

I'm thinking that he means the amount of packs Honda has footed the bill on. There's been too many stories from Insight owners complaining about pack degradation. Does that mean they are unreliable pieces of junk? NO WAY!! The 2000 seems more like a production test bed than anything.

I'm pretty sure my pack is ready to die in my Insight and I'm hoping I can get the IMA light to go on before the I get past 80,000. Hopefully they'll foot the bill for it. (still I feel they won't) I have way too many recals but no IMA light yet - my car never had the recall done on it. I plan to have it serviced next month and the recalls accomplished.

'00 Insight "Wazabi" -75,000+ miles
'03 Toyota Matrix - 81,000+ miles
'03 HCH-CVT-OSBM-41,000+ miles (retired 04-10-06)
"I'm very secure with my little Insight, no Prius envy here."

Anyone know the shortest a pack has went as far as both mileage and time driven? obviously less than 5 years for time driven but how much less.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

Hi Tbaleno:

___There is a very vocal Insight owner in the YaHoo - Honda Hybrid forums that had his replaced at < 30,000 miles IIRC. It had to be a defect as he was receiving Recal’s within a year? Even with my pleading, he still insisted to ride the pack at a whim just because he could. His right of course but I didn’t think it was a smart thing to do with a dying pack or not? Although not a member here, this post/thread should get back to him sooner or later and he can provide more detail …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

I do wonder about that number of battery packs replaced, it's possible to count more failures than that on IC and the yahoo groups (basically 00 and 01 Insights). Have there been any Civic hybrids with premature failures or Insights with the updated BCM and MCM? I've searched but haven't found any failure stories yet. Hmm, time will tell.

The dealer I bought my car from was surprised when I asked if the battery had been replaced. He told me that a local customer had an Insight with the original pack at 200,000 miles. I've also just learned that my local dealer (Williamsburg, VA) is doing their first hybrid battery replacement next week.

People seem more willing to complain about their product online when something goes wrong than to take the time or innitiative to praise it when things are going right. I'm not suggesting there haven't been battery problems with the earlier Insights, just that they might be less common than our online sampling shows. None of the three Insight owners I've bumped into over the last 18 months have had battery problems and haven't participated in forums about the car either. I still feel safer having nearly 5 years and 80,000 miles of the hybrid warranty left though.

Anyway, here's a link to the article. There are some very interesting tibits in it.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/classi...sifiedcars-hed

I do know that at my friend's dealership, they replace one battery but it was working perfectly. Honda wanted a volunteer and got one, they wanted to see how the battery was holding up.

I asked what the cost would have been had the battery really needed replacement. The figure of around 1K was mentioned. I thought that was more the case than the outrages $5K I keep hearing from the misinformed media.

Hi Livvie:

___When Honda replaces a pack under warranty, they not only replace the pack, they replace the Inverter/converter and BCM. Total price is in the $3,000 - $4,000 range IIRC. What Honda actually pays for 120 specialized and cap matched Ni-MH D-Cells with special tops and sensors is a bit less as you can well imagine. It is not $1,000 for us end users by any stretch but it is not $5,000 either. I have heard that a Prius I pack that failed at 102,000 (the guy actually had a 7/100 warranty and Toyota wouldn’t cover) was upwards of $7,000. I am really shooting numbers from the hip on that one in particular because it has been a long time since I have followed the details on basically ANY pack replacement. They do not happen that often which is a very good thing …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

Ok good to know, but in this case I believe it was just the pack that got replaced. I'll double check on the BCM and Inverter/converter.