CNN/Money comments about the perception of US quality - or lack of.

what do you think? (I'm not going to comment immediately)

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

Buick number 4 and Honda number 9, I am not sure I believe that graph. I'd like to see the data behind that graph. And where is number 2?

Support the Troops - Drive a Hybrid!

Boy, that doesn't seem to jive with the 'perceived' experiences that stick in my head. Maybe that's what they're trying to point out, huh?

Even if the numbers are correct. It took the US auto industry a long time before they ran everybody off, it'll take them a long time to draw them back. I tried to give them a fair shot 15-20 years ago. It's going to be a while before I have any reason to try them again.

Rich-
Interested...

There is a difference between quality (interior materials, fit and finish, ergonomics) and reliability (long lasting, requiring few unexpected repairs). 10+ years ago Toyotas were reliable, as indicated by the number of 4Runners and Camrys from that period that are running around with 150,000+ miles on them. However take a look at the interiors. It is downright sad the design, appearance and materials used by them at that time. I would not call Toyota aesthetics or interior design or materials "quality". A Ford product of just about any price from that same period has more appealing interior finish, more ergonomic sense and better materials than the Toyota from the same time period. More "quality" was put into design and implementation than many foreign competitors of the same era.

The challenge that the domestics have right now is not a quality issue, and it isn't really a reliability issue. It is an appeal issue. It started with Ford chaseing off the "beige car conusmer" group with the then radically redesigned Taurus in 1997. Only those with open minds about design were willing to buy and drive a vehicle that was so radical a departure compared to the previous, successful, Taurus designs. The "beige car consumer" was immediatly turned off. Adding insult to injury Ford raised the price to cover the extensive expense at such a major redesign. The "beige car consumer" couldn't really justify the increaed price in addition to a radical design that didn't fit in with their "beige" lifestyle.

After that the whole domestic sedan market kind of fell apart. Chrysler and GM, although they build lots of sedans, they didn't have the market image and penetration that Ford had with Taurus/Sable. When Ford lost their market advantage, all they had left was the small car market and SUV/Pickup markets. Nearly all the domestics manufacturers thought they could be profitable and strong by only having lukewarm sedan offerings. And they realized by about 2000 that they couldn't, especially when foreign manufacturers were dominating that market and earning huge profits in that market. But the ship sailed and now the domestics are playing catchup.

The reason I'm so irked at the accusation that American manufacturers have a quality and reliability issue is that I am surrounded by domestic vehicles (all Ford products) by friends and family and they are virtually trouble free. Nary a visit to a dealership for anything more than an oil change. And when something does need to be fixed it is usually because the vehicle is over 10 years old.

As a crossover buyer (one who normally buys domestic but is driving foreign now) I have no preconcption that any vehicle is going to operate perfectly and without any need for repair. That is just totally unrealistic considering the complexity of vehicles regardless of their powerplant.

It has been said:
Hybrid drivers come in 3 flavors, greenie, techie and cheapie. Pick any 2.
2005 Prius, Melinium Silver over gray, package 5 (AI)

What good is quality with out reliability?

The J.D. Power's survey is worthless. All luxury brands are at the top and all cheaper brands are lower down, even though luxury cars are often less reliable than plainer cars. Clearly the people who voted were not voting for reliability but just what cars they themselves liked.

Consumer Reports is the one to trust here.

There are definite questions about J.D. Powers sources. Automakers (mostly G.M. and Ford) pay J.D. Powers large sums of money to use their name and rankings in advertising, creating a conflict of interest. Consumer Reports does not allow companied to use its name in advertising.

How does the saying go?
"It takes a lifetime to build a reputation, a few moments to destroy it"
Or something similar.

Actually Detroit's 3 have had more than its fair share of moments to destroy their reputation.
Not that the Japanese are immune. Their bottom 3, also have had many opportunities to soil their image.

Wow, look at the normal distribution of the poll results! Whatta Bell curve!

The J.D. Power survey really only takes into consideration problems per 100 vehicles, which isn't a true measure of vehicle quality, just one component. Material fit and finish and refinement should also be taken into account, although they are less tangable qualities.

I rent midsize cars from Hertz at work about 4-6 times a month. They tend to be the following models: Ford Taurus, Mazda 6, Hyundai Sonata, Chev. Malibu/Impala, Pontiac Grand Prix, Nissan Altima and Toyota Camry. I get a good opportunity to compare the interior fit and finish, panel gaps, plastic quality, etc.... The Ford and GM cars are far behind the Japanese manufacturers in these areas. The Ford and GM cars have poorly fitting interior plastic components with dull finishes and exposed plastic seams. Somewhere I heard that 1/3 the cost of a component is in the last millemeter of tolerance. The GM and Ford cars have improved slightly, but still have a ways to go. Hyundai has made huge steps in the last 10 years in this area. Why can't G.M and Ford?