1) Make the hybrid system for new hybrids an add-on to a regular engine like they did to the accord. This way there is no sacrificing power for economy. I bet you will get a whole new niche of people buying it because its faster than a non hybrid version.

2) The gauges are pretty much perfect. I'd like a voltmeter and compas though.

3) electric A/C.

4) bigger battery and maybe start from battery until 10mph or so.

5) Allow folding down seats.

I think most of these items are being adressed already, so I think Honda is on the right track.

If they keep the price point the same and made it a much sportier car I think people will be eating these cars up.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

Yes, and it redlines at 6000. It is less useful in my car - a CVT, but still I'm grateful for it.

I would like to see the electric assist kick in quicker at higher speeds. I should not have to press the pedal to the ground to get an electric assist from a full battery pack.

Another item would be a relocation of the 12v (or even an AC adapter) so that it doesn't make the passenger cup holder useless. I have three or four DC attached devices in my HCH (Cell phone, headset, Amateur radio, AC inverter) going at one time. Being able to organize these connections better would be nice.

-Charlie...

I may be the only HCH owner who feels this way, but I bought my HCH because it did not look like a hybrid. A lot of folks like the futuristic look of the Prius and Insight, or the look of a sports car, but I liked the fact that my HCH looks like a "normal Civic", except for the unique differences we know about but which the average man-about-the-street wouldn't.

I was willing to pay the "hybrid penalty", but a lot of folks aren't. I am happy to be on the leading edge of technology, but until the cost can be brought down to equal or be even less than the top-of-the-line ICE of any model we are talking about, the average American consumer will not consider hybrids unless gasoline really increases in price.

That said, I sure would like a fold-down rear seat. If my wife had not had a CRV, which we use to carry things when we have a need, I would not have bought my '05 HCH. Thanks for asking.

The Accord Hybrid, yes, but the Insight and the Civic aren't quite up to par. I'm just stating that cars like the Insight and Civic aren't going to do it for the mainstream.

Read my new biweekly column, The Western Street 7.
Visit my political debate forum, Volconvo.

I disagree with your assessment of the Hondas. Car & Driver 0-60 times:
insight = 10.6
civic hybrid = 10.9
new prius = 11.3


Before a debate breaks out, let's just say that they're all "equal". Honda is not inferior to Toyota, or vice-versa.

troy

I've got a 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid with a manual transmission. I love it overall but there are a few nit picks:

1) Relocate battery for fold down seats (as has been mentioned)

2) Move stupid antenna to front windshield. This is a big deal for me cause I stack cars.

3) The gauges are ok but could be a lot better.

a) Have the MPG display read out every tenth instead of skipping 3 or 4 tenths.
b) Have a seperate OD readout instead of it being a menu option.
c) Have a seperate reset button. Hitting the same button to both change displays and reset makes me nervous.
d) Increase the size of the instant MPG readout and add a digital readout in addtion to the bar graph.
e) A seperate (3rd) unresetable lifetime mpg screen would be cool.

4) I'm happy with the the power and mileage but more of both would be even better.

5) I'd like the assist to kick in a little LESS going up hills.

6) A full size spare would be a nice option.

7) The writing for the buttons controling the clock function of the radio is very hard to read, even in daylight.

8) A manual auto stop button would be nice, one where you could kill the engine at high speed.

9) Sometimes the car auto stops when you don't want it to, I'd like to see an autostop disable feature.

10) A keychain remote trunk release would be cool!

11) For true nut cases like myself, manual control of the assist would be cool. If not full control more (sport) and less (max mileage) agressive settings.

Two relatively simple items that the Insight should come from the factory equipped with:

Temperature controlled air intake so that we don't have to do the warm air mod.

Automatic air louvers for the radiator to keep engine at optimum temperature.

Both of these seem fairly simple - don't know why Honda didn't install, in view of all the major engineering that went into the car!

Hi Psc239:

___First, let me thank you for taking the time to both participate and for attempting to learn what works and does not work for some of us here at GreenHybrid. With the welcome, please keep your real ident, work location, and design area private as there has been Honda employees fired for releasing anything of note to enthusiast sites in the past IIRC. You probably already know this but just in case

___It sounds as if you do not own a hybrid yourself?

___And now for the meat and potatoes … As has already been mentioned, an instantaneous and averaging FE display should be std. throughout the Honda/Acura lineup. It is one thing for Honda to worry about someone not achieving their automobiles EPA estimates with a gauge telling them they didn’t vs. really training Joe and Jane Q. how to maximize his or her FE no matter the Honda/Acura they drive. These FCD meters actually do save a significant amount of fuel and isn’t that the real crux of today’s real world problems? It is almost hypocritical of Honda and Toyota to allow any car to leave the factory without an FCD of some kind given they both offer some relatively fuel efficient automobiles in a given class of vehicles for public consumption.

___Non-Hybrid Accord w/ NAVI. The TC has a max resolution of just 50 mpg. 75 mpg’s should be the minimum and at a resolution of 2.5 per bar instead of 5 mpg. Look at some of the most recent tanks in the PZEV Accord linked below in my sig. Do you understand the problem? This is very similar to attempting to drive at a 65 mph limit but your speedometer only displays a max of 55 mph! While you are at it, the NAVI – TC History only displays the most recently completed tank or segment. The Acura MDX’s NAVI - TC History displays the last 5 tanks or segments. You can see the 5 tank/segment space is available in that particular screen but the Accord’s NAVI wasn’t programmed to save more then one tank or fill the multiple tanks in? Given the NAVI unit’s memory can display something like your last 20 + programmed locations (GreenAndBlue, I need your help on that one ), why can’t it remember the 5 last segments/tanks? Another one … An external temp gauge should be standard up and down the Civic and Accord lineup. Do you know why I don’t own an 03 Civic EX instead of the 03 Corolla LE? You got it, a simple but mandatory external temp gauge that is std. on the lowly Toyota Corolla! Honda was penny wise and extremely dollar foolish in this regard. Even today, you have to purchase an Accord EX-L or the EX V6 (upwards of $25K + MSRP) for this to be included as std.? What was Honda thinking considering it probably costs < $10.00 for an OEM to include one vs. the $100 + they charge as an add-on for those driving Accord LX’s and base EX’s. I do not think it is even an option in any Civic for some reason? Another … A reboot/Forced Autostop (shut down and start up via key) will cause the NAVI’s TC to lose ~ .1 miles vs. the odometer display each and every time. I can almost tally my reboots over a tank just by looking at the difference between the Trip A/B odometer and the NAVI’s Trip distance delta’s. I know there is some boot up time for the C++ (?) based NAVI unit but still. If the AH’s NAVI TC can handle autostops, then the NAVI TC’s of all Honda/Acura’s should hold their own in similar regard. Not letting the NAVI’s reboot with any turn back of the key would be a start. Maybe a turn back and 2 minutes of inactivity before shutdown would work instead? This permissive strategy seems plausible to me … if possible?

___Accord Hybrid w/ NAVI. The Instantaneous’ resolution is in 10 mpg increments? Again, what was Honda thinking? Maybe they should consider installing speedometers throughout their entire lineup that shows that you are traveling either 5, 15, 25, 35, 45, 55, 65, or 75 mph only? Who needs the smaller resolution 1 mph increments like every automobile manufacturer on the planet including Honda has installed for decades now? I am being facetious but I think you can understand my disappointment in the Honda Accord’s (hybrid and non) NAVI - TC instantaneous displays Another … The gauge cluster averaging display is ~ 2 mpg under the actual from hand calc and the NAVI’s TC is ~ 1 to 2 mpg above that? Someone had better get that one straightened out … And reboots in it as well

___Accord Hybrid w/out NAVI. No Instantaneous at all? Again, the real way to improve your FE no matter the condition or automobile is with an Instantaneous. The AH without an Instantaneous is like an NSX with a 4,000 RPM REV limiter! It will never allow its new owner to see its true potential simply because the end user doesn’t have any real time feedback to adjust to.

___Acura TL w/ NAVI. Why doesn’t the TL with NAVI have a Trip Computer? Its averaging display is as hamstrung as the AH is without NAVI. You cannot imagine the number of TL owners that are really pissed about this once they actually find out about it. There are quite a few TL owners that know about this oversight now too

___Acura MDX w/out NAVI. It has an excellent Instantaneous (whoever designed it from your group was a genius imho) as well as averaging display in the LCD. What is missing is any history or multiple Trip A/B capabilities? The $1,800 + NAVI option is a bit much for this small addition. You also lose the really unique round - gauge based - instantaneous of the non-NAVI when you order the NAVI with its Accord style - plain jane - bar graph And having to glance over at an LCD to the right of the gauge cluster (ala Prius I/II) is a bit tough as well.

___The closest to perfection of all displays for maximizing one’s FE has to be in the Insight. 4 different FCD displays and all are customizable. No history displays however The best individual Instantaneous design has to be that included with a non-NAVI MDX imho. The prettiest would include the Prius II’s energy flow screen although it is relatively useless for maximizing ones FE imho or the deep blue FCD’s in the HCH. I absolutely love the HCH’s deep glow for some reason

___Now that you have heard my hybrid and non-hybrid user interface pet peeves, do you think you can get one of the Honda propulsion wizards out of Japan in here so I can rant about what they are missing in terms of maximizing FE in whatever vehicle they have designed? I have to work around 10’s of items to maximize FE and if those engineers in charge of design took a few hours to understand how hypermileage is achieved, they could do wonders for the real world FE of whatever they build! A recent post brought up a Prius II’s Engine map and one the engineers are probably up to their eyeballs in. The only problem is not a single one of them Hypermile and if they did, they would look at those engine maps in a completely different manner then they do today. Simply stated, the propulsion design teams may have never thought of all the workaround tricks us hypermilers have to use to bypass their poor hypermileage implementations we are stuck with from our various Honda’s.

___While you are at it, please contact someone in the know to let one of our hypermilers take a Euro Accord test mule you may have lying around in the states for a 2 week test drive. Those FE records that the European drivers hit when the iCDTi was first released will be toast in a true hypermilers hands. Any of the following guys could cream that 70 + mpg achieved from it in that one off distant segment. To name names, Rick Reese, Chisight (he doesn’t post here but he can hypermile with the best of us), Singing Tiger, Prius Tideland, Krousdb, Rjbarlow, Lakedude, Kenny, Buzz 70, Hot_Georgia_2004, Tinkerbell, Tink, and Jdunkin are those that I would love to see get their hands on an iCDTi for even a few days to wring it out for what ever its actually worth!

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

The only thing I could add is a gauge that tells you how many miles til empty so I don't have to the math!

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