GM will be introducing a full plug in hybrid, the Volt, in 2010 or 2011 as well as a plug in hybrid Saturn Vue.

Has anyone heard of the cost associated to get a full battery charge in these cars. These plug in electric cars are trying to achieve 40 miles on a single charge, how does the cost of an overnight battery charge compare to a $3 gas fill up for a hybrid car?

I haven't seen any numbers on the cost of this electricity anywheres.

Mr Fezziwig, administrator for Green Cars Now, http://www.greencarsnow.com , a website promoting fuel efficient cars and cleaner alternative fuels and Car Repair Ratings http://www.carrepairratings.com , a website devoted to consumer reviews of auto repair work.

My concern about a plugin is where does the electricity come from to charge the battery?

If you have an insanely high electricty rate are you really saving any money?

If you have your electricity created by - *gasp* coal burning - is your carbon foot print any better than a gas only engine?

In Central Arkansas, a sole nuclear power plant creates 1/3 of the electricity. The rest is coal fired.

An alternative would be solar panels. That would require a means to boost the voltage up to the 110 VAC needed to push the charge to the battery. Again. How much do solar panels and such a voltage boost system cost the average joe?

Until electricity is cleanly and cheaply produced a plugin does not interest me.

In addition most of the charging needs are at night when the sun is elsewhere. Systems that store electricity for use later add more to the cost.

Until gasoline is less polluting and doesn't use electricity for processing, then plug-ins and all-electric cars interest me.

A power plant is MUCH more pollution regulated than all those gas-burners. Use google.

also check out evnut.com. Lots of great info and links.

'04 Seaside Pearl #7. Fumoto oil drain, mudflaps, rear bumper scuff protector & rear warn system, compass mirror, EV mode button, 8" subwoofer in right rear cubby & 6" subs under seats, power lumbar in the front seats, Coastaletech hitch w/ Aspen bike/snowboard rack. iPod2car, 2 amps, Alpine component speakers, and DVD video, solid 47 MPG @ 70000 miles.

I had a discussion regarding this issue with a coworker a while back, some via email.

One site claims that their PHEV uses electricity that equates to $0.75/gallon gassoline.

Fair warning: these are old links and I did not check to see if they still work.

http://www.pluginpartners.org/plugIn...icBenefits.cfm

The only real technical data I found, on a real product:
http://www.edrivesystems.com/faq.html

Some of the "gasoline cost equivalent" math uses a comparison to a vehicle that gets 25 mpg, which I don't think is reasonable. Also, many of the estimates I have seen use the cost of electricity as $0.08 to $0.10 per kilowatt hour (KWH) which I also do not think is reasonable. That is likely the cost for the lowest priced tier, but owning a PHEV would put most people into the highest priced tier. I think it makes more sense to do the math based on the highest priced tier. That cost can vary greatly based on electricity provider.

I am actually very pro-PHEV and am looking forward to the technology making it to the mass market. I just think that the marketing and sales pitch needs to be upfront and honest about the costs. I realize this is a huge contradiction. Kinda like expecting a first-date to tell you what they are really like!

I had the pleasure to drive a Plug-In Ford Escape ( two times ).

With careful, gentle driving at speeds only zero to 39 miles per hour and an average speed of 22 MPH considering the time standing still at lights....

50 miles of EV cost $2.00 of electricity.
So looking at just the "fuel" cost it is cheaper. About half price.

But the batteries are very expensive... so you'll probably not break even in cost in 15 years. However, most people interested in the technology are not into it to save money.

And ALL the "fuel" in the form of electricity was at least, domestic.
Many mid-west prarrie states are installing wind farms. I'm seeing them pop up like mushrooms. Take what ever the U.S. gov says our wind power capacity was in MW in the most recent report and probably double it... since the statistics folks can't keep up with the construction folks. A wind turbine ( up to 3 MW per mill ) can go up in just a few weeks. There's very little involved. All the pieces are trucked in and installed by a very small construction crew.

A company called "Vestas" is just about ready to open a wind turbine factory in Colorado. Right now, the company ships the turbines and blades in from over-seas. Later this year, the large blades will be made right in the central U.S. The actual generators will come from somewhere else.

I drive 3000 to 4000 miles per month over the mid-west interstates.
There's not a single month when I don't pass turbine blades (120 feet long... radius ) going down the highway on modified logger trucks.

Along I90 in Minnesota alone, there's several hundred mills in operation already... with a nominal 1 Mega-watt each. And they only need 10 miles per hour winds. Along I80 near the Colorado / Wyoming border theres a few hundred also. I can "buy" wind power for my home for a few dollars extra per month ( $3 to $12 based on useage ).

Kansas has inititatives to start windmill farms. For some strange reason, I also see NIMBY signs along the highway in that state. What kind of a view are you going to block with a windmill on the Kansas plains? They are silent and pollution free, and dont take up any farm land. You can grow corn right up to the post the windmill sits on. And the blades are high enough off the ground, you can drive your tractor or combine right up to the post. The post is only.... 6 feet? in diameter?

I'll post some pictures soon.
-John

I see these 120 foot long turbine blades going down the highway almost every time I'm out on a long drive. This particular photo was in Kansas. -John

I see them some here in North Texas, too, gpsman1. Many, many windmills in west Texas now.

Steve

STOP terrorism - Drive a HYBRID

Vehicles:
350 miles a week ------------ 2006 HCH II, Magnetic Pearl, w/NAVI (born on May 25, 2006)
350 miles a month ---------- 2003 Mazda Tribute ES-V6
350 miles a year (for now) - 1986 Mercedes 560SL

Don't know if you doubling guess is accurate here's an article that says we're up 45% last year, I think they follow this data closely.

What I'll add is that when you consider the capacity factor or efficiency of the energy source compared to the rated MW wind vs Nuclear or Coal is very misleading and overstates it's actual production.

http://www.nei.org/filefolder/US_Cap..._Fuel_Type.ppt

With nuclear at an 89.6% capacity factor and wind at 30.9% nuclear beats wind by a factor of 2.9 in delivering GWh to the grid per rated MW.

The 5244 MW of wind added last year is equivalent to 1808 MW of nuclear, or 2282 MW of coal.

Well I was talking off the cuff based on what I saw driving by... if you consider the plants built since the report I was pretty close! Point being there is rapid expansion of wind power right now.

I'm not sure what you mean by "capacity factor" and your power point only had one slide???

Are you saying windmills only turn 30.9% of max output on average?
But that's really not at issue, since we add up what they do produce, not what they could produce. I guess it depends on what you are looking at. If you are looking at wind capacity, or wind production.

What's the point here? Is nuclear more powerful and reliable? Of course... there is no debate there. And I do think nuclear is a green way to make power. I was once told 100 pounds of uranium makes the same power as 20,000,000 pounds of coal. I may be off by a power of 10, but that's a close guess.

16 pounds of Plutonium can generate 100 watts for 100 years ( or 1000 watts for 10 years) in a thermocouple device. ( per NASA ) This is used in deep space probes where sunlight is too weak for solar cells.

Maybe expensive! But efficient. ( what is the cost of Plutonium these days? )

I'm not opposed to nuclear power, after all other "green" and renewable sources are maxed out first. Will we ever run out of wind? I mean really... if the wind blows north to south today, will the windmills in Minnesota leave less wind for the windmills in Iowa? And in turn, will there be even less wind for the mills in Missouri, "downstream" so to speak? Will extensive windmills play any part in "The Butterfly Effect"?

I have all the questions. I do not have all the answers.
-John