Hi folks,



I'm interested in acquiring a hybrid car within the next few months. It will probably be a Camry or hopefully a redesigned Highlander. To push the concept a bit further, I investigated the plug-in conversion process.



Through web surfing, I was able to find some converters that, amongst other things, remove the stock battery and replace it with expensive Li-Ion cells instead.



I understand this process and it does make sense for people who can afford it. Now I was wondering if it would also be possible to proceed with a sample conversion that would simply add the electronic needed and the AC receptacle on the car without touching the standard battery.



This way, the first few miles drove every morning (after charging) would not require any gas engine intervention at all if done within the slow driving/acceleration criteria.

Does it make sense or am I dreaming ?

If you said, "a used hybrid beyond the warranty" it would make perfect sense. But to buy 'new' or one with a significant warranty remaining and then invalidating it by a major modification doesn't make much sense. But if I were doing it, I would start with a used hybrid because of the available, low-cost salvage parts, maintenance manuals and experienced owners and pioneers who have already investigated critical systems.

If you look at the mileage database, you'll find some folks get outstanding MPG without plug-in. Repeating their performance is the type of low hanging fruit you might master first. With luck, you'll find a helpful FAQ with the roadmap to their success.

There is no 'magic bullet' to achieve high MPG but a set of small details that together achieves the goal.

Bob Wilson

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The batteries in the Prius etc have very small energy capacities, and the software only lets you have a small proportion of that energy.

For example, the Prius has a 1.3 kWh battery. If you charge it up to full (80%) overnight from the grid, the car's software would only let you drain down to at most 40%, and more usually about 50% before levelling out.

That means the car only really lets you use 30% of the available battery storage, which is 0.4 kWh, enough for only 1.5 - 2 miles EV mode.

This is why to make a go of plug-in charging, you really have to change or add to the existing battery capacity. It's not really worth grid charging without doing this.


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Thank you clett for this very valuable information.



It does indeed meet what I felt would be the behaving of the system.



My daily commute to work is only 4 miles in a stop and go situation. Would you say that I might be able to make this travel on battery only (with a simple plug-in modification) with the Camry or Highlander or will it be worst than with the Prius ? We also have to consider the brake regen input to the battery.



The whole idea is really to be able to say that I don't use any gas for my daily commute. That's a nice feeling particularly since my power grid comes from hydro-electricity.

By the way, is there any of you knowing when we should expect a redesigned Highlander hybrid ?

regards

On a four mile trip, a hybrid car won't have time to warm up to fully take advantage of they hybrid system. This is true of any hybrid, no matter what make or model. You'll certainly get better mileage than you would in a conventional car, but not as good as you'd get on a longer trip.

I would recommend you following plug-in vehicle.
http://www.gemcar.com/
http://www.zapworld.com/index.asp

Ken@Japan

MITE66-The new(2008) highlander should be out sometime between march and june2007.And I think the hymotion PHEV kit works with your original battery pack then self disconnects when its low.then u go backto the normal hybrid systen. Read the post under new highlander design In the highlander column.And go to hymotion.com for more info

I actually think that Ken may be right. If you are only going 4 miles and want a car to commute, and also to do nearby errands, then maybe you should consider the Xebra. As a bonus it is way, way cheaper than a hybrid, and you can keep your current gas car whenever you need to go for longer distances. Don't bother with a GEM as they are too slow, and quite pricey (their prices used to be a lot better a couple years ago...what happened?).

As a final alternative, you can buy a cheap, small car like a Geo Metro and then convert it to an EV for a total cost of ~$10,000 (including the car, conversion parts, batteries, but assuming you do the conversion yourself). If you read the book Convert It! it tells you how, but of course there is a lot of work involved.

Anyway, for your situation maybe you could consider buying a Camry Hybrid, and then also buying a Xebra. Or you could buy a cheaper, but still efficient ICE car, or keep your current car, and just buy a Xebra. If you don't drive very far that regularly, the truth is, you'll probably do a lot more for the environment (and be a lot less reliant on oil/gas) by keeping a decent 25-30ish MPG car and driving it conservatively when needed, and otherwise driving an EV most of the time. Eventually PHEVs will be a good one-stop combination of an EV and a longer range, fuel efficient ICE, but right now the conversion is just too pricey.

Or you could just buy the hybrid. Even that is a step in the right direction.

By the way, I'm sure it's possible to do the plug-in conversion for much less than what is being sold here. Most of the conversions I've seen were using LI-ION batteries that are very pricey. If you can figure out how to do the conversion yourself, you can probably just fill the whole trunk with lead-acid batteries. You'll have a decent range and spend less money. The downside will be losing the trunk, or most of it anyway, and also the extra weight of the batteries.