This scenario is probably familiar to you but I was in Cedar City in the southwest having dinner and then planned on picking up a few beers for the motel. First the waitress who was 20 had to get a waitress that was 21 to take the order, the 20 year old couldn't even be present during the ordering? Then we asked about a liquor store and she said we had 10 minutes before the state store closed at 7pm. I head out on foot running for 5 blocks to find only warm beer. Ended up pleasing the wife with some pre-mixed mudslide jug.

Yeah, you have to plan ahead. You can get "Utah beer" (3.2% alcohol by weight) cold at the grocery store. However if you get to the store too late (I think it's 1 or 2 am) you can't even buy it at the grocery store. Sometimes I pack for trips late at night and run into this lovely inconvenience. You can buy real beer (the stuff they sell in every other state), but only at the state run liquor stores, and never cold. The state stores are open limited hours. Kegs are illegal.

Great post and well said. I happen to own a Pilot, and I use it. Backpacking, tow the occasional trailer, or just haul the family+gear on a vacation. My wife has a 1.5 mile commute, and uses about a tank of gas a month. I think there are a lot of people in that category. That's why I don't like over-generalizing SUVs and their owners. I don't consider myself wreckless or irresponsible for owning that car.

Now there is a category of folks that I think of when discussing this issue. It's the family of three with a 3/4 ton truck and an Expedition in the driveway. It's the Suburban with 24" chrome wheels. It's any Escelade. Now it's not always the vehicile by itself, it's the attitude of the owners that *can* come with it. Now I'm not saying that just because someone owns an SUV that never sees a trail or a trailer is causing the fall of society. There are a lot of folks however that over-spec their vehicles not because they need, but because they can. The only message I get when I see an Escelade is, "I not only have enough money to waste on this car, but I can afford to waste this essential, limited resource we all share as well." I'm sure there are very nice people who do own them - I will just never understand why. Even if I had the money, that's not where I'd spend it, and it's certainly not the kind of thing I want representing me on the road.

It's not "are getting". It's "have". It's threads like this that get linked into some SUV form somewhere where they take turns ranting at the pious tree-huggers. We need a better way to make our point.

*** Retired after 65,000 outstanding miles ***

Listen to some historians...Michael Parenti, etc...you'll learn alot and understand what I said. This "freedom" crap people keep talking about here is so loaded it's incredible. Freedom this, freedom that.....bit overused don't you think?

Tim,

You bring up an EXCELLENT point. There is no real difference (in terms of fundamental personal voids to be made up at least) between a person driving a big truck to "feel" better and "safer" than someone driving around in a 500 HP sedan or sportscar. Types like that are as much involved in this debate as the former group.

Exactly...you nailed it. When Hasselbeck says on the View that "we are the best" and better than everyone else...and it's our God given right to drive, do, take, abuse, destroy whatever we want...this is what you get.

I agree...hybrid owners are not better than anyone else. HOWEVER, your comment on life is to be enjoyed...yes...it is...but not at the expense of others...whether they be your next door neighbor or some poor child dying in Iraq so you can fill your tank and enjoy kayaking. Just because you do not endure direct impact from your actions, it does not mean that you should think you are entitled to what you do.

This is neither a liberal or conservative issue, it's not a gas-guzzling or hybrid fuel sipping issue...it's a moral and human issue....a trait that has all but been extinguished in western culture now thanks to the dehumanization of everything non-western.

Is there a hybrid related question in any of this?

Noz, do you drive? If so, why don't you take a bus or bike? Do live close enough to work to walk or bike? Whats your daily commute like? Do you use electricity coming from coal? Do you live in high density housing? Living in a detached house contributes to cutting down forrests for housing, and those houses use more energy than an appartment.

It would be really simple if we could point to one "other" segment of the population and say its their fault for all our ttroubles and if they would only change their ways, we'd all be ok.

We'd all use less energy if we stopped breathing... Where do you draw the line?

If we gor rid of SUVs, then what about 4-door sedans? Should wll drive Yaris'?

rcomeau

Back in 1929, people could invest very freely in the stock market - even if their net worth did not match the stocks the owned. We all know what happened later in 1929.

So throw caution to the wind and see what peak oil does to the economy? I'd rather be silent on that scenerio than being accused of being self-rightous, smugness, etc.....seriously folks, all sarcasm aside, some market corrections have resulted in some pretty big train wrecks.

I'm not perceptive enough to finger...."you are an induldgent narcassist"....except maybe Paris Hilton. What I do know is on a national scale our energy consumption is unsustainable with plenty examples of extravagence.

Retorting "if you really care - go get a bike" and the smug card is both unhelpful and projection. There are not very many walkable or bikeable communities in the US. Nearly everybody can cut back some on energy with little sacrifice.

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

Well said Noz. Although I would substitute the word "western" for "capitalist." Capitalism in general and corporations in particular breed self-centered behavior. Use use use whatever you can for whatever purpose , no matter the consequences. Just keep the shareholders happy, or you fail. Of course, I'm a product of and a participant in that system... *sigh

Best trip: 48.9 mpg over 17.9 miles (scangauge)
Best tank: 40.7 mpg over 606 miles (calculated)

I'd prefer you explain it, since you're calling freedom crap, and saying freedom is loaded, but use slavery so lightly.

I suggest you read some Friedrich Hayek or Milton Friedman. I see Parenti is big on Hugo Chavez, who isn't so high on freedom of the press, no thanks.

Parenti really thinks Tibet is better off because China invaded?

Parenti predicted that the GOP would retain control in 2006 because powerful corporations now control the electoral results, boy was he wrong.