The Prius (2004-2006) acceleration seems to be indifferent in respect to charge. The Prius can charge the drive battery pack while the electric motor-and ICE) is driving the car.Can the Honda do this; I'm don't know enough about the Honda system to say?
Of course, you would think that would be a losing proposition-trading mechanical for electrical for mechanical energy, but it isn't ,because the electric energy gives more torque at the low speeds-gear and wheel-we are talking about. At much higher speeds this becomes a disadvantage, of course.
Im not a bit surprised that the Prius outperforms the HCH2 in the mpg numbers here. However, I am surprised that the HCH 2 manages to get within .7 or .9 mpg. I look at CR's unbiased results for cars that aren't factory ringers,and the Prius got much better mpg than the HCH2. CR and the EPA are the only groups doing unbiased testing(and the EPA numbers are done with factory ringers-) and the Prius score much better -mpg wise)than the HCH 2 in these tests.
I have my own pet theory on why the HCH 2 performs better than expected; HONDA OWNERS ARE MORE COMMITTED TO MPG AND TO HONDA THAN TOYOTA OWNERS!
Honda owners seem to post more here-an indicator of committment??- and they react very strongly to any criticism of the HCH 2.Just look how you folks defend the HCH 2.It is losing the mpg race here, but you folks always minimize it. You constantly claim that the HCH 2 is going to overtake the Prius 2(it isn't despite my son's 42 mpg Prius efforts helping you).
Toyota owners don't love Toyota(or Prius) in the same way Honda owners love Honda(and the HCH2). The only unbiased numbers come from CR and the EPA; they indicate that you HCH 2 owners try harder!!
Now,I'm just tweaking you Honda folks, but I am serious about the "love".
Thanks,Charlie
PS I currently own 2 Hondas- 2003 Pilot SUV and 1983 VT500 mc.Great vehicles.

I know you are just having fun, but you might be on to something there. For various reasons, Honda owners (myself included) tend to be extremely passionate and brand-loyal. Look at the thousands of Honda fan websites out there for the Civic alone. Although I place Honda and Toyota as equals at the top of the automotive mountain when it comes to quality, Toyota doesn't seem to incite the same passion. From everything I hear, Toyota offers a vastly superior dealership/service experience. Maybe Honda is taking our love for granted .

no, the hch.ii cannot simultaneously charge the battery pack and propel the car. that would require two motors and the hch.ii has only one.

can't disagree with this. honda owners care more about the environment than toyota owners. glad to hear one of you admit it.



when you can show me data from priuschat that indicates that the prius mpg there is significantly higher than here than i will believe some correlation. priuschat posters are just as rabid and fanatical as hch posters here.



well, i wouldn't exactly call a .7 mpg difference "losing the mpg race." the hch.ii would have much higher mpg if the car weren't just so ****ed fun to drive. i think you prius drivers are lucky in this way...

agreed. we do try harder. prius owners, get your butts in gear please and put our mpg numbers to real shame! show me the money!!


me too.

From everything I hear, Toyota offers a vastly superior dealership/service experience. Maybe Honda is taking our love for granted

Wow, if Toyota dealers are vastly better than Honda dealers, then the Honda dealers must be literally stealing your wallet and robbing you!! The Toyota dealers in this area-NO- follow the lead of Gulf States Toyota-the big SE dist. They have made "vehicle protection pks"-TRANSLATION-paying $600 for Scotchgard and wax standard equipment on every car. Same story with "ALLOY WHEELS"-they take off the perfectly adequate-LAST FOREVER- steel wheels, and charge $600 for cheezy alloy wheels that usually aren't even lighter. Don't get me started on pinstrips, or aftermarket leather.The stock fabric on the seats lasts forever and is impervious to stains.Switch them out for very low grade leather that stretches and gets scratched up by our dogs and cats-AND CHARGE $1100!!
Honda has several advantages over Toyota:
1)Old man Honda-long dead-still dictates policy and he loved FE and efficiency.He felt that a good 4 cyl was all that was needed for a passenger car.His legacy is that- HONDA MAKES THE BEST 4 CYLINDERS 4 STROKE ENGINES IN THE WORLD! Honda engines beat Toyota engines in FE and performance in every class-Civic vs Corolla Accord VS Camry.
2)Old man Honda was a racing fanatic so Honda manages to make their engines rev quickly, but still get good mpg.Their cars also have a somewhat sporty feel to the suspension. 4 cyl Accords aren't as dull as 4cyl Camrys. Young guys-import tuners- don't bother trying to hop up Corollas-it is always Civics-.
3) Honda feels it knows what is best for its customers . It didn't ask, do you want to pay an extra $600 and get side side curtain airbags?It just put them in and charged extra. Toyota knows it can sell more cars and make more $$ by selling super duper CD players,alloy wheels and other electronic BS, so they really don't push airbags-even on tiny cars that really need them like the Prius,Corolla,Yaris.
Toyota's airbag pks are only about $600, but it is really tough to find them on low end cars-the cars that really need them.Why?Because Toyota only makes $100 of that $600 instead of $350 they would make selling some electronic BS,or alloy wheels.
Honda is a very different corporation and Honda fanatics love that.I'm sure you Honda guys try harder in respect to HCH2 mpg than Prius 2 drivers.I can't prove it, but....Luck.Charlie

I have to admit reading all the posts here was fun. It reminds me of all the people I grew up who were either Ford people or Chevy people. There were very few Japanese cars then. Usually rust Buckets.

Almost Like Republicans and Democrats, Hatfield’s and McCoy’s. Born into the party or particular car manufacturer and stay there.



Having said that...

We researched these two cars endlessly.

Only one car magazine had the Civic faster 0 to 60.

All the others show a 1.5 to almost 2 second gap.

After many test drives in both cars.( How can they be so rare if every time we went on a lot we found one to take out again??)

We have unique needs and specific requirements.

1. I am 6 feet 2 my wife is 5 foot 3. This would be her car. Car had to accommodate both of our driving needs plus our two teenagers who are fairly tall. One is a 5 foot 5 13 year old and growing like a weed. The car had to fit all of us comfortably.

2. My wife would primarily be driving on one of the busiest interstates in the country. The car must have enough power to maintain speeds but more importantly is able to quickly get up to speed and have that little extra reserve to get in and around the idiots on the road.

3. Car must have good real world fuel economy. We are not going to baby a car to brag about FE. Drive it like our other cars.



We have no "brand” loyalty as many on this board seem to have. We have owned Honda's: Odyssey, Accord, and Toyotas: Corolla, Camry. Nissans: Maxima, 300z, Sentra, all are fine vehicles all with excellent dealerships.



What we chose and why. We were fortunate that there are usually Honda and Toyota dealers right next to each other. So comparisons were easy

we were excited to drive the new civic hybrid. However, My 13 year old could not sit behind me without her knees being crammed into the back of my seat. Even though 2 people can have the same height there body make up can be different. My daughter and myself have very long legs.



The acceleration was a surprise. On every test drive the civic hybrid was noticeably slower. .

For some reason and this happened in 3 different civic hybrids in 90 degree heat the AC never really cooled us off. We almost froze in the Prius taking the drive right after or before the Civic. Both cars were "engine cold" yet due to heat it was very hot inside car. Each test drive lasted for about 15 to 20 minutes.

The real world mpg is excellent for both cars.



For us the Prius was a better fit overall. Yes it takes some getting used too.

For your family it may be different. Every person or family has different needs.

Driving it no different than she does her Nissan Maxima she is getting

what we consider excellent FE. Excluding the first tank we are getting almost 46 mpg with predominantly highway driving. FYI on this stretch of interstate if you try pulse and glide or go the speed limit you will either be run over or have a line of people giving you the one finger salute.



Bottom line.. Both are fine vehicles. Enjoy whatever you own. Don't feel like you have to justify your purchases. It was a tough decision for us.

I've driven Priuses extensively and the Civic a few times - all 2006 models.

The Civic wins on accelleration. The Prius is powerful compared to the wimpy Hybrid image but the Civic is a fireball compared. Accellerating from 60 to 75 to change lanes on the highway, or accellerating from 0mph to 30 to beat someone to a right or left hand turn lane from the center lane, is something you can count on in the Civic. As a regular Prius driver I've learned in that car you sometimes have to accept you won't be making that turn.

The Prius wins on effective use of battery; run downhill in a Prius and you'll notice afterwards the computer uses battery more than gas to accellerate until the charge drops to a normal level. In the Civic I've managed to fill the battery going downhill, and it suddenly accellerated as there was no electric engine resistance anymore. The computer didn't increase battery usage in response so anything like regenerative braking, etc, ceased to work for about a half hour more of that trip, until the battery finally was forced into use from heavy accelleration at high speed.

The Civic wins on visibility. There's at least one thread here about how bad the rear view, especially the blind spots, are on the Prius. Between the Civic's ability to accellerate in tight spots and its better peripheral visibility, I'd go so far as to say I'm a safer driver in a Civic.

The Prius wins in stop-and-go traffic - you know, 0mph, 15mph, 0mph, 15mph, 0... . The Prius is near-perfection here; it will typically accellerate on electric alone, then even recoup some of that electricity braking! Not a drop of gas used. The Civic takes a beating here; not only does the engine turn on every time you release the brake, even to go 5mph, but after enough cycles the computer can become confused and leave the engine on for minutes after you've stopped. Your mileage quickly wears away.

The Civic wins on looks. The Prius and the Scion xB are the only 2 cars I've driven where people have gone out of their way to tell me my car looks stupid. I'm yet to get a remark like that about the Civic and have occasionally even heard compliments. I happen to like the look of the Prius but admit I love the Civic.

The Prius wins on potential; that is, if you want to learn a little about how to up efficiency you up your efficiency quickly. If you want to learn a lot about it... you can post those insane above-100mpg averages some post here. The Prius will be as crazy about mileage as you want to be. The Civic can be frustrating (see threads about trying to get the EV-only mode to work for example) if efficiency is your #1 priority.

The Civic wins on fun. You ask the Civic to go, it goes - and the sound of both engines pushing is thrilling.

I need to decide on one of these to buy now and am very torn. If the Civic wasn't so confused in stop-and-go traffic I'd buy it, honestly. But I know if I buy it I'll get caught one day low on gas, run out, and then I'll be frustrated AND feel stupid. So I'm going with the Prius. I'm vain enough to not be willing to buy an Insight, but the Prius is acceptable-looking enough for me to choose function over form.

One very minor thing that tipped my hand as well: I might eventually spend the money on a "Plug-in Hybrid" modification on whatever car I buy, to support the movement and further reduce visits to the pump. The Prius is the only car in use for the prototypes right now. The Civic on the other hand couldn't make great use of its own battery when full; leaving the house with twice the charge might have a very limited impact on mileage, if anything at all.

Hey I love my XB it's been the only car I have owned where people actually want to sit in it. Always end up hearing this little thing has alot of room. Yeah I'm 6'3" and can fit in the back seat easily. I believe between the Yaris and XB the value can not be beat.



Abolsute stop and go you can not beat the Prius the key with the Civic is to have enough room were the car does not get confused. If the seat in the Prius could accomdate taller folks I would have one but, I'm very happy with my choice. Toyota forgot to make seats in the Prius that go up and down.

James


Best MPG tank: 57.7 calculated
Best Trip: 73.8mpg displayed(Palmdale"LACR" to LAX)

haha Good point about the seats going up and down in the Prius! How odd is that? Even odder, it appears the Prius I bought specifically has unusually high seats - I'm significantly higher up in it than the 2 other Priuses I test-drove and the 5 or so I drove regularly in Boston. I wonder a little if it was custom built for someone and fell through... . It sure makes seeing out the back a lot easier! You being 6'3" would dread this car though - good thing I took it off the market for ya eh?

I am getting a Prius (in line for a 2007, hopefully deliver before Sept 30), but I would put xB ahead of HCH, because HCH is so short on upper body space (for those of use with long torso, big guts, big heads, etc.). I do like Honda's, I have a Pilot, but Civic's has been short on upper-body space since the 80's, and this generation it gone even flatter.

I test drove both, and while HCH handles better, I find Prius handling more thrilling because I can reach 80, 90% of the limit easily. I have learned that fun of driving is not from driving fast, but from how close to the edge you are. Prius reminds you where the edge is (but lets you go a little more from there).

And I spent $ 10 to get Prius shop manuals and Toyota technicians manuals (online). And all those previous comments about seriousness of Toyota mechanics about hybrids are for real. The technicians' manuals are great. And the shop manuals (for DIY'es) are so helpful. Good luck finding such resource on Hondas.

I love Honda's, and love their engines (from all those motorcycle technologies), but I just wish they are less arrogant in how they sell, how they service, and how they respond to Toyota's challenges (I rather see actual products instead of promises of "future" products).

But who knows, if I can't get my 2007 Prius before Sept. 30, a HCH may just look good again. No Kerry or Flip-flopper jokes please.

I have the 06 HCH, 06 HiHy and driven the prius on numerous occasions.

For fuel economy, the prius wins hands down especially on traffic jams. In fact, my HiHy beats my HCH2 when the traffic gets worse to a near stand still. But that's about it. How often do I encounter those situations? very rare. In slow moving traffic, speeds about 25 mph, fuel economy between hch and prius are virtually identical.

For "regular driving", meaning, part-throttle acceleration, the hch wins. There is so much low speed torque in the hch that you move off at 1500 rpm with authority. It feels like you have a 2.3 liter 4 cylinder. At about 25-35 mph, you feather the throttle and you get 80-90 mpg. At the highway, I can merge without problems and still keep low RPM to maintain speed, lower than what I used to in my 2000 elantra.

I can maintain 70-80 mph and the engine does not sound struggling. I drive slightly above traffic speed and pass other cars every now and then but still managed to get 48 mpg. I find that impressive since I only have 350 miles on the odo.

The prius is excellent in overall fuel economy. However, if you want "regular" driving to keep up with traffic, you end up pushing the gas pedal more.

The prius can deliver maximum go power when you need it or it can maintain maximum efficiency. But there seems to be a deficiency when you need something in between. It has poor partial throttle response. And partial throttle is what you do most of the time on your daily drive.